indeed we are siu can u please relax
On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 2:57 PM, Justin Lacko <[email protected]> wrote: > *I'm* surprised we're bringing this all up again. > > We should take the "don't care" attitude. It's simple. > No occupancy permit? --> Don't care. > > The fact is, many places throughout the city operate on a daily basis > without an occupancy permit in varying degrees. Republic downstairs from us > have no occupancy permit, yet they are a legitimate business moving 6 > figures of dollars through their business yearly. And, they have beer in > the fridge. > cre8ery has no occupancy permit or liquor licence, yet they continue to > operate and even hold events with wine for sale. Despite public advertising > of their events, they have not been shut down by undercover visiting > inspectors (although maybe they're just lucky). > > I have already done the research into what it would take to get an > occupancy permit and frankly, it's not worth it. We also don't need it. > Let's stop caring and just fix what needs to be fixed, that makes sense to > be fixed. > > We seem to live in this constant hushed fear of being shut down, when > really we should just have the "don't care" attitude, because it's not > going to happen. The organization can officially state their intentions of > needing to keep things legit, which should be encouraged. > > When it comes down to it, don't do stupid things like run unsheathed 120V > wire through a sink, or invite passing-by fire inspectors up for an > unofficial drink. > > Let's all recognize that we're on the path to fixing open issues and > improving the space. > > > On 30 March 2013 01:16, Roswyne <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Well, those are good points. >> >> However, despite our good intentions, we've already made a lot of >> improvements that aren't officially to code. >> >> I'm surprised that running Ethernet cables is being seen as more >> important to do "by the book" than say the electronic door lock. >> >> We simply don't have the money to hire people to do everything... And so >> if we're willing to do it ourselves, we should use good judgement in >> determining how far we're willing to go to comply with a code we're already >> violating. >> On 29/03/13 10:26 PM, Roswyne wrote: >> >>> Not really. I see no reason to think we have any active intention of >>> getting an occupancy permit, so it really makes no practical difference. >>> >> >> I meant it sucks in general, not just for us. >> >> Though, it does suck a little for us even without the occupancy permit. >> On top of the slap on the wrist if were caught occupying without a permit, >> there's also the slight chance of being slapped again on the wrist if such >> events lead to unlicensed installation being a verdict. >> >> But really, all the occupancy permit gives us is the right to >>> potentially hold a dozen events per year at the space where we can >>> legally sell and consume alcohol. So what. >>> >> >> I'd put it a little more precisely, an occupancy permit gives us the >> right to occupy the unit, which is a prerequisite to obtaining liquor >> licenses. There are other benefits to having the a permit to occupy on it's >> own: >> >> * The penalty for being caught occupying without a permit may typically >> be a slap on the wrist, but with that could also come orders to make costly >> alterations at an inconvenient moment, and potentially if the process >> wasn't going well, an order to cease occupying until requirements for >> occupation are met >> >> * Lack of permit is leverage for a landlord who wants to break a lease >> in order to renegotiate, sell the property to someone else who wants to >> renegotiate, or sell the property to someone who wants to obtain the >> property minus tenants due to redevelopment plans or plans to use it for >> themselves. >> >> * Insurance companies have to be tough-ass to stay in business. (or else >> people take advantage of them) Don't count out the possibility of them >> investigating and being assholes if it suites their interest to dispute a >> claim by pointing to the lack of occupancy permit. >> >> * Uncertain liability for board members. Yes, it's hard to hold board >> members legally responsible for stuff, and occupancy perhaps are probably >> an unlikely area for that (compared to say, failure to file tax returns), >> but there certainly are circumstances where the corporate wall can be >> breached -- that's why we buy insurance covering the conduct of our board >> members. Again, don't rule out the potential of insurance companies to >> dispute a claim. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of there being clauses >> in the policy that make a distinction between board member conduct being >> unintentionally ignorant vs intentionally ignorant vs willfully in >> violation of the law. 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