On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 11:56 AM, Aaron Wolf <aa...@snowdrift.coop> wrote:
On 03/21/2016 08:45 AM, Stephen Michel wrote:
 There's still one unanswered question: OpenProject has a nice way to
 organize meetings and record minutes. What do we replace that with?
 Here's the criteria I'm working off of:

- Tactical meetings have two outputs. Holacracy calls them "Projects and
 Next-actions"; we'll call them "User Stories and Tasks."
   - User stories and tasks will be publicly recorded in Taiga.
 - Governance meetings produce changes to Roles and Policies.
- These are recorded in our governance docs, which are in a git repo
 [1]. We can make one commit per meeting, so we'll know which meeting
 produced what outputs.
 - Informal Meetings are really just another name for people getting
 together to chat.
- Remember, in Holacracy, decisions are made by one role -- whichever has the accountability for doing the thing that the decision is about. - Discusion in an informal meeting *might* give someone the info they
 need to make a decision. IRC or email might do the exact same thing.
   - The only reason I'm calling these meetings at all is that it's
 common for roles to make decisions in informal meetings.
 - Meetings are open to the public.

 Here are my opinions based on the above:

- It's not important to keep minutes of Tactical or Governance meetings. - In the spirit of open development, it *IS* important to have a place
 where the the snowdrift community (that's you) has a chance to give
 their thoughts on decisions and understand why those decisions were
made. That means some public place where we post what was talked about
 in Informal Meetings.
- It's probably not important to keep **minutes** of informal meetings
 -- it's probably enough just to post "These are the things we talked
 about and these are our conclusions" somewhere.
 - It's important to publicize meeting times.

 Two open questions:

1) Where should we post a record of what was discussed in informal meetings?
 2) Where should we post times for upcoming meetings?

 More opinions/answers:

- I'd like to avoid forcing people to make an account with a new service
 if I can help it.
- Short-term thought is that we can probably keep both of these in the
 mailing list.
- Longer-term thought is that upgrading to mailman3 or Discourse instead
 of the current mailing lists (mailman2). Both mailman3 and Discourse
provide both full email list functionality and web interfaces (forums)
 to reply to discussion threads. Discourse provides the additional
benefit of using tags instead of lists, which means you can tag a post
 with two different tags, and send it to two different lists, without
 sending it double to anyone subscribed to both lists.
 - Discourse is, IMO, the better long-term solution but might be more
 disruptive to implement short-term.

Since Gitit supports being hierarchical, it's no longer absurd to track
meetings in the wiki, the same as we had done before but now stored in
their own directory. It's clunky, but I think it makes sense.

I think gitit/repo would make sense if it were important to keep a record of WHEN and WHERE decisions were made and WHO said WHAT. I don't think that is important.

I think WHY decisions are made is important, and I think getting feedback on that WHY is important. So I think the ML is a better place for that than gitit because gitit does not have a good discussion section. Imagine if we put minutes into gitit. How would someone in the community comment on them? They'd start an email thread that references the gitit page. That's not great for now, since it means another click, but it's even worse for archiving, because discussion is not sufficiently connected to the content. Minutes keep track of who said what. I don't think that's super relevant to people, and it adds more work for anyone who wants to know what we talked about and offer feedback. If there's a simple summary of content and rationale, I think that's WAY easier to read and people are way more likely to engage with it.

Further: Imagine we have an informal meeting where we talk about legal, design, and development issues. I'd rather send 3 emails -- to the dev, design, and legal mailing lists -- each about one topic, than send an identical email to each list saying "look at this page with a bunch of irrelevant information and discuss."

When the Board is set up, I DO think we should keep minutes of *their* meetings, because WHO, WHERE, and WHEN are all much more important. I think gitit would be a great place for these.


The main
concern about Gitit is to make sure to set it up to block spam. Ideally,
we could figure out how to share auth with the snowdrift site
eventually, but that probably won't happen right away.

Agreed. It is definitely possible. fr33domlover and chreekat can give the best opinion on how much work it'll be.

FWIW, Discourse can do Single Sign On (SSO) (aka share auth) with the main site, too. It would take way too much work to be worth doing for Alpha (MVP), but is probably worth doing for Beta. That would mean anybody on Discourse would agree to the honor code first, which is another big benefit.

 So I'll wrap up this monster email by proposing the following:

 - For now, we send out meeting announcements to the mailing list.
 - For now, we send out a record of what was discussed in Informal
 Meetings to the relevant mailing list.
 - Long-term, we upgrade our mailing lists to Discord.

I'm sure you meant Discourse not Discord. Discord is some meeting/chat
thing that seems proprietary from what I can tell.

Correct. Discord was a typo -- it's both proprietary and not useful for tracking minutes -- I meant Discourse.
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