On Sep 12, 2006, at 8:04 PM, Alastair Campbell wrote:
David Poehlman wrote:
AC: OSX doesn't have full keyboard access without VO).
dp: please explain?
AC: Most of the keyboard commands for Voiceover only work when VO is
on. Things like getting to the status area, and navigating
applications don't work without the VO/keyboard cursor (e.g. F6/shift-
F6 in windows).
Something I would like is for the 'full keyboard access' mode to
include most of the VO commands, just without speech. However, I may
be a market of 1 ;)
dp: give mousekeys a spin?
dp: I like relative motion and did notice that there are some
places where we move differently depending on the keys we use. I
only wish we had more of that such as on the web orr in airport setup.
AC: Doesn't it make it more difficult to learn what is where? I'm not
saying it should change, you can get to everything in the same order
with VO-right/left, but it does change things around if you aren't
careful.
dp: careful? I find that it's more efficient this way. It's more
difficult to learn when things are diffferent than they are supposed
to be...
I guess it have certain advantages when you know how something is
laid out thought. For example, VO-down twice and then interact gets
you into Safari's content quickly.
dp: or you can just tab.
dp: can you put the uri in the message?
AC: Sorry, I had but not very recognizably: www.alastairc.ac
I can't replicate exactly what I just mentioned, either I've changed
some settings or my memory is leaving me!
dp: it makes a difference where you are on a page. If you have the
address bar up, your method works.
However, try two things:
1. On www.alastairc.ac, get to the first content heading (currently
"WYSIWYG editor spec - allowed HTML", and VO-right. Then you get the
'posted' line. VO-right again skips over to the 'Site' heading, which
is actually in the second column.
Should people use VO-down when reading on the web in general? It
seems more set up for sighted use in this regard, it must be
confusing otherwise.
dp: I see no difference whether using right or down or up or left. I
sometimes see a difference when group items in web pages is checked
though.
2. On the Wiki (www.blindtechs.net/wiki/), when I use VO-down, I go
through the left column twice, then into the content area. It starts
with 'link' (the logo), navigation, search, and toolbox headings,
then you get the sub-sections of each area like 'main page', Because
they are indented slightly they count as another column.
I can see positive and negatives to this 2D approach, but on balance
I would prefer a code-order approach, as it is fairly easy to miss
things otherwise. (Or at least an option to take that approach.)
dp: I agree.
However, it isn't completely grid based, as hidden skip links area
read out is *roughly* the order I would expect from a linear
presentation, which is why I wanted to do some test cases...
Still, it could all change in Leopard, with the 'improved navigation'.
dp: as I understand it, the "improved navigation" only makes it
easier to do the same thing.
Kind regards,
-Alastair
