True, but that can only happen with windows 2000 and up. If you got win98
or earlier or the Pantheon forbid Windows ME, life gets lots worse. I did
manage to install win98se using brailled instructions and described that
misadventure over on blind-l including posting those instructions a few
years ago. That adventure was so appreciated by me I got into Linux and
last April bought myself a mac mini.
On Thu, 21 Feb 2008, David Poehlman wrote:
dunno, I think they run an unattended script.
this is on a fresh system I think.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cara Quinn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS X by
theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: Another NFB review of Mac with VO
David, do tell. The last time I tried to install Windows, the first
screen that came up asking me for input was not one that I could have
speech on. With all due respect, if I can't get the first screen to
speak, how can I know what I'm doing to get past it?…
Isn't this independence?…
XOXO
Cara :)
On Feb 21, 2008, at 3:33 PM, David Poehlman wrote:
I don't meant to burst any bubbles here, but blind windows users are
installing windows independantly, Narrator can at least help with
that.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richie Gardenhire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS
X by
theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 5:49 PM
Subject: Re: Another NFB review of Mac with VO
Good points, Olivia. I truly believe, however, that Microsoft, if
they want to stay competitive, will have no choice but to develop a
system where blind people can install the operating system on their
own, even if they have to acquire one of the screenreading companies,
which is not out of the realm of possibilities, unless both
organizations of the blind step in and block them from doing so.
After all, the more choices we have, (and it's been proven) prices are
going to be competitive and more and more blind people can buy
accessible computers, i.e. Windows-based, off the shelf, at the same
price just as they pay the same price for a Mac sighted persons do.
Richie Gardenhire, Anchorage, Alaska.
On Feb 21, 2008, at 1:02 PM, Bruins Fan wrote:
Just wanted to add my agreement to all that's been said here.
Microcrap talks a great line about being committed to accessibility,
but they don't have a functioning screen reader built into their
system the way apple does.
Of course the switch from windows to mac is a learning curve, but
it's worth it.
I personally think that voiceover is on par with jaws for most
things, and this is only the second release. Jaws is on what?
Version eight?
Microcrap needs to take a lesson in accessibility from apple and
start building a screen reader which is actually usable into their
operating systems.
Olivia
On Feb 21, 2008, at 2:46 PM, Justin Harford wrote:
Hello
The review says that it will not be a painless switch for blind
people who want to change over from windows to the mac. This is
true and it will never be easy for any blind windows user to change
over because the scope of their awareness does not stray beyond
windows. it's also true because there will always be a learning
curve. It wasn't easy for me to switch because there were concepts
that weren't intuitive coming from win. But it was all worth it of
course.
Bottom line is that os x and win are not the same an I will
appreciate that it stays that way.
Justin Harford
No good deed goes unpunished
Wicked Witch of the West
On Feb 21, 2008, at 9:51 AM, John Moore wrote:
I agree about Apple, especially since MicroCrap has never cared and
third-party companies have had to script things all the time.
On 2/21/08, Edward alonzo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hey all. I did a podcast on just that. how wonderful it was just
to
open the mac box, and be able to set it up unasisted.
I didn't have a single problem with it at all.
I know that it's not perfect, but, I do think that apple as a
hole,
is trying there best to get things right in the accessibility
world.
Especially sense it's only been out for 2 years.
Neither of the leading windows screenreaders were much in there
first
2 years either.
Pluss you've got to install them and a lot of new computer users
don't
know the first thing about installing an aplication.
Just some thoughts.
Edd
On Feb 21, 2008, at 7:39 AM, Jacob Schmude wrote:
Hi
Definitely less than fair and, while they do make some positive
comments, I still can't help but feel this was an attempt to put
off
someone from taking a look at VO. It's very short, saying how
illogical VO's navigation keys are (which I personally beg to
differ), and saying we won't be able to use the Mac out of the
box
in a straight forward way. Sounds to me like these people just
couldn't step back from their windows expectations and take a
real
look... either that or didn't want to. Not that I expected
anything
else from NFB anyway.
Later
On Feb 21, 2008, at 2:24 AM, Cara Quinn wrote:
Hey All, I found this while searching on something totally
unrelated, so had a read and thought you all might like to see
it.
I think it's less than fair, however, it's definitely not as
offensive as I was expecting! lol! Not to mention the fact
that
the authors also mention Mac in a non-negative light as well, in
their last blog posting.
The below is from:
http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Access_Technology_Blog.asp?SnID=2
Enjoy and have a lovely evening!…
Smiles,
Cara :)
VoiceOver in Leopard
12/6/2007
With the recent release of Mac OS Leopard we decided to take a
look
at the Universal Access features that come built into the OS and
see how they compare to the screen access solutions offered for
Windows.
VoiceOver, the screen access software offered by Apple, can be
launched at any time by pressing COMMAND+F5. The first time
VoiceOver is run the user is presented with a tutorial designed
to
orient them to the Mac and the features and functionality of
VoiceOver. Unfortunately it took extensive searching to locate a
similar tutorial that could be run on demand. The ability to
locate
training material is critical to a new user's ability to learn
and
become accustomed to a new software package, especially
considering
the learning curve most Windows users are likely to encounter
when
using VoiceOver. We were eventually able to locate the tutorial
by
going to the VoiceOver menu (CTRL+OPTION+F7), navigating to
Help,
and then activating the VoiceOver Quick Start option.
Screen navigation in VoiceOver is much more complex than
navigating
with most screen access software on the Windows platform.
Apple's
approach to screen content organization involves grouping the
screen into "Content Areas". A Content Area can be any control
such
as a list view, a group of icons, or a text box. To orient
oneself
to the screen the user moves around the different Content Areas
with the VoiceOver navigation commands (CTRL+OPTION+ARROW KEYS).
Once you find a Content Area you wish to work with you have to
"Interact" with it by giving that area focus. This is
accomplished
by using the command CTRL+OPTION++SHIFT+DOWN ARROW. To return
focus
to the previous content area the CTRL+OPTION+SHIFT+UP ARROW
command
is used.
Menu navigation is similarly complex. To access the menu bar you
use the command CTRL+OPTION+M. Repeated use of this command
cycles
the user between the menu bar, the status area, and the
Spotlight
(the built in search function). There is no way to access a
commonly used menu, such as the View menu, without navigating
through the names of all menus displayed before it.
Unfortunately, the command structure for VoiceOver is neither
intuitive nor simple to learn. With commands requiring 3 to 4
keystrokes to accomplish it will take even the experienced
computer
user some time to become comfortable with the interface. The
command to access the Mac's desktop, for example, is CTRL+OPTION
+COMMAND+D. Similarly the process for selecting a menu item, as
described in Apple's documentation, is to navigate to that item
with the same navigation commands used to select a Content area
and
press CTRL+OPTION+SPACE.
Apple has made progress toward accessibility for the blind. They
should be commended on their efforts in making the installation
and
set up of Braille displays as easy as possible. Many displays
can
be plugged into the Mac and are immediately recognized without
the
need to install drivers or reinstall the screen access software.
Unfortunately, without a redesign of the command structure and a
more logical method of screen navigation, using a Mac straight
out
of the box will not be as painless for the blind as it is for
sighted users.
Tony Olivero
12/6/2007
---
View my Online Portfolio at:
http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn
--
John Moore
---
View my Online Portfolio at:
http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn
