Dear Esther,
I've just been through the enttire process again and again. there's
even a stranger behaviour happening. When I click the mouse twice and
then press the new key combination for previous input menu, the
shortcut key persists as it was before although I had previously
checked the box next to it. However, what does change is the status of
the checkbox: it becomes unchecked again. Also, there is a checkbox
nextt to the input menu itself which is partially checked. It became
wholly checked when I checked the box next to the previous input menu.
Again, it reverts to being partially checked after my attempt to
change the shortcut key for previous input menu item. This is so odd.
I will seek some sighted assistance and see wehther they can help me
change the shortcut key using the mouse.
With best wishes
Simon
On 21 Aug 2008, at 01:58, Esther wrote:
Dear Simon,
This is indeed very strange behavior. In answer to your questions,
keyboard shortcuts in the table are only "active" if the checkbox to
the left of each shortcut key is checked. They can be unchecked as
a group (e.g., if you uncheck the box to the left of the "Input
Menu" the boxes for all items under that menu category will
automatically be unchecked, and when you VO-left from the
descriptions of "Select the previous input source" and "Select the
next input source in the input menu" both the checkboxes would then
also be unchecked.)
I did not think this was the reason you could not assign the
shortcut for "Select the previous input source" because the original
instruction sequence took you back to the Input Menu tab of the
International menu of System Preferences, and this summarizes the
Input menu shortcuts. Had the "Select previous input source" option
been unchecked, I would have expected this entry to show no current
shortcut. However, if this is the case, you should VO-left past
the description of the shortcut you wish to change and first make
sure that the checkbox is checked before you try to VO-right to the
shortcut key definition, double-click it and change it. None of the
keys you are using (option, control, command, shift, space) should
have different definitions in any other input keyboard. And I don't
think this keyboard shortcut assignment (Option-Shift-Space)
conflicts with existing shortcuts of any of the software you already
have, unless your UltraLingua packages use this. Even so, you
should be able to assign the shortcut key -- you would simply be
told that you have multiple shortcut assignments to the same key
after you'd done so.
I can only put this down to the occasional times when my cursor
appears to "jump". I generally get better results on this sort of
command assignment when I have my Mouse cursor tracking my VoiceOver
cursor, but I've recently been using cursor tracking off, because I
seem to get slightly more stable behavior when I use Safari 3.
I think I'm just mystified by the problem. When I have problems of
this sort and I can't reproduce the behavior consistently, I try
turning VoiceOver off and on, and then I that I'm in the location I
expect to be (e.g., the right window, the correct place in the
table, etc.). Usually there's an explanation (like Will's
experience of getting switched keyboard inputs because there really
are two shortcut definitions for the same key sequences active in
the system).
Try to first check that the checkbox in the table of shortcuts is
checked beside "Select the previous input source", then try double-
clicking and making the new shortcut assignment again. Before you
stop interacting with the table, look through the complete line for
each input entry to check that the checkbox is checked, and that
the shortcut is what you want. Do this for both "Select the
previous input source" and "Select the next input source in the
Input menu".
If at any time you need to check the current input keyboard, you can
do so by going to the TextInput menu on the menu bar (VO-keys+M
twice, arrow to the Text Input menu and arrow down to check the
language that is checked). However, the whole point of having the
shortcuts is to make it easier to switch and check on the input
keyboards. Obviously, if you only use a few input keyboards you can
just use Option-Space to cycle on to the next input source, but it
would be handy to have the "Select the previous input source"
shortcut working.
I'm out of other ideas. I don't think this should be different
between Tiger and Leopard.
HTH
Cheers,
Esther
On Aug 20, 2008, at 10:09 AM, Simon Cavendish wrote:
May I also add - rather strange as it seems - if I try to double-
click the command+space shortcut which I'm attempting to change
with the actual mouse, having first routed it to the VO cursor, I'm
still unable to change the shortcut but the status of the checkbox
next to the description of the shortcut changes from unchecked to
checked and vice versa. Simon
On 20 Aug 2008, at 01:58, Esther wrote:
Hi Simon,
You wrote:
Following your steps for changing input source shortcut keys that
by default conflict with the activation for spotlight window
shortcut, I have successfully changed the shortcut key for
selecting next input source to option spacebar. However, -
although I have carried out the same steps - I have failed to
change the shortcut key for previous input source which still
persists as command+spacebar. Why can't I change it?
To make sure that your keyboard shortcut change has "taken", you
might want to VO-left off the shortcut you've assigned and then VO-
right again to hear the assignment you made announced before you
stop interacting with the table. When you re-assign a keyboard
shortcut by double-clicking and then pressing the new shortcut
combination, you're in a kind of edit mode. Moving your focus off
the shortcut just after you've made the assignment and before you
leave the table ensures that the next keys you type (to stop
interacting, for instance) are not confused with the keys you
pressed as part of the shortcut assignment. To make sure your new
assignment can't be changed by your later key presses, move the
mouse cursor off the shortcut key after you VO-left, so there's no
possibility that you're still in entry mode for that shortcut
sequence when you VO-right again to hear the new shortcut
announced. In the case of editing mode changes where a key
sequence is not correctly interpreted (maybe due to extra key
presses), the default response of the system is not to make
changes. You can also check that the mouse cursor moved correctly
to keyboard shortcut position before you re-assign the shortcut,
but I think it's more likely that the edit mode didn't terminate
properly.
So, starting from the selected shortcut description for "Select
the previous input source", the sequence would go:
1. VO-right to the current shortcut key assignment -- Command-
Space, according to your note.
2. Move the mouse cursor to your VoiceOver Cursor (VO-keys-Command-
F5 or VO-keys-Command-Fn-F5 on older laptops)
3. (Optional) Verify that the Command-Space shortcut is under the
Mouse (VO-keys-F5 or VO-keys-Fn-F5 on older laptops).
4. Double-click on the shortcut you wish to change with VO-keys-
Shift-Space by holding down the Control, Option, and Shift keys
while tapping the Space bar twice quickly
5. Press Option-Shift-Space for your new keyboard shortcut
6. VO-left back to the shortcut description ("Select the previous
input source")
7. Move the mouse cursor to your VoiceOver Cursor (VO-keys-Command-
F5) to ensure it is off the newly assigned Shortcut key.
8. VO-right to the shortcut key and check this is now Option-Shift-
Space.
9. Stop interacting with the table.
10. Tab to the "Select All" button and VO-space to press and
navigate back to the main System Preferences menu.
11. Navigate to the "International" menu (type "I N" and return;
press VO-keys+space to open the menu)
12. Navigate to "Input Menu" (VO-keys+Right Arrow to the "Input
Menu" tab and VO-keys-Space to select)
13. Navigate (VO-keys+Right Arrow) past the table of selected
(checked) input keyboards to read a summary of Input Menu
Shortcuts. The two shortcut assignments should now read:
Select previous input source: Option-Shift-Space
Select next input source in menu: Option-Space
When you start using the shortcut keys it is easiest if you are
only working with two or three input keyboards, and if there is
some key you can press to quickly distinguish the keyboard you're
using. For example, I'll use the key to the left of the carriage
return key (either shifted or unshifted), and that usually
distinguishes the different input keyboards I use if I'm in
TextEdit.
Hope this helps. Since Tiger supports the option to allow a
different input source for each document, I haven't tried to
install the InputSwitcher app suggested by the MultiLingual Mac
page as a solution for this missing option under Leopard. Try the
current shortcut options first, and let us know how they work.
Cheers,
Esther
On 18 Aug 2008, at 13:53, Esther wrote:
Hi Will,
You want to change the shortcut assignment listed in the table
(not add one for another application by using the button to the
right of the table). Interact with the Table of listed
shortcuts. The Input Menu shortcuts are near the end of the
list. You could simply uncheck the checkbox beside "Input Menu"
so there are no shortcuts in conflict with the ones for
Spotlight. To change the assigned shortcut, doubleclick on the
shortcut then press the new combination you want to use. I set
these to:
Select the previous input source: Option-Shift-Space
Select the next input source in the Input menu: Option-Space
And I VO-right to where the current shortcut is announced (e.g.
Command-Space), then double click with VO-Shift-Space pressed
twice quickly by holding down VO-shift and tapping the Space bar
twice.
Cheers,
Esther
On Aug 17, 2008, at 11:45 PM, will lomas wrote:
hi yes the keyboard shortcuts conflict with spotlight and
language keyboard switching
how do i change a short cut?
the button to the right of the table is dealing with
applications?
Will
