think we are a bit off topic and I'm blind so I believe it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Grady" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS X by theblind" <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 10:08 PM Subject: Re: iTunes Accessibility - have I been mistaken?
I think the blind can be told anything and believe it. On Aug 23, 2008, at 7:02 PM, John Panarese wrote: > I know you haven't been on the list as long as many of us, so you > might not be aware of the saga that unfolded over iTunes > inaccessibility prior to it being improved. Additionally, some of > us have been fortunate enough to have discussions with Apple > Accessibility people and can be certain that they are aware of the > problems and have been assured they will all be dealt with. > Furthermore, others have gotten responses to emails sent to Apple > accessibility regarding the iTunes Store. Thus, I think it's safe > to say that we can be more certain of the fact that it will be fixed > and in the end that Apple is aware of the situation than it Not > being the case. What one might believe is a "simple fix", is often > not the case, as there are several components of iTunes and now that > the iPods, iPhones and Mac computers are all pretty well connected > via software, I'm sure that is a factor as well. I have my own > theory as to why the last parts of iTunes have not yet been made > accessible, and I know, at least, a few others share it. However, > since it would only be additional speculation, it's not worth > mentioning. All I can recommend to you, Tim, is to take a few steps > back and look at the big picture as accessibility stands on the Mac > and how far it has come. If that's not good enough for you, well, > like anything else, everyone is entitled to their opinions and > beliefs. Other doubters have had their share of crow to consume in > the past > > > Take Care > > John Panarese > > On Aug 23, 2008, at 4:19 PM, Tim Grady wrote: > >> How do you know Apple knows the problems we are having and what's >> more, how do you know they care about your problems? Aren't you >> doing exactly what you're accusing me of doing, that is making some >> huge assumptions, the first one being that I don't know what I'm >> talking about when I site a problem I see and say it would be an >> easy fix for Apple to make? >> On Aug 23, 2008, at 11:05 AM, John Panarese wrote: >> >>> Don't sweat it, David. You and I have been around the block >>> with accessibility, and it's the usual reflexive reaction to claim >>> that anyone who defends Apple is doing so out of loyalty to Apple >>> alone. Of course, the reality that some of us have dealt with >>> several levels of accessibility coming over from years of Windows >>> frustrations for several years and are at the point that we have a >>> handle on how these things tend to progress is often lost. What >>> Apple can and cannot fix easily, again, is an assumption being >>> made here, as we have no idea of the what and the why involved. >>> We all have our frustrations and "complaints" over the things we >>> can't do, but there comes a point in which you say your peace in a >>> non dramatic, productive way and that's that. Apple knows the >>> problems and beating the dead horse isn't gong to helping the >>> matter. >>> >>> As for the store, again, a highly exaggerated claim being made >>> here, as I have bought songs from iTunes and consider 99 cents >>> worth the price. Amazon doesn't do it for me, but that is, of >>> course, my personal preference. The album aspect and the >>> registration, in the big picture of accessibility overall, is not >>> something I lose sleep over. What Apple has done in a few short >>> years compared to other folks indicates to me that there is a >>> method behind the proverbial madness. Not too long ago, seemngly >>> overnight, iTunes went from limited accessibility to its current >>> usability without any fanfare or such from Apple. We had np >>> special word or announcement made by anyone from Apple. It just >>> happened. There are other applications and features that, from a >>> productivity standpoint, are far more important to be fixed than >>> iTunes. It will all be fixed, but I know that the complaints will >>> only fall somewhere else after that and on and on, as it Always >>> seems to do. >>> >>> >>> Take Care >>> >>> John Panarese >>> >>> On Aug 22, 2008, at 6:41 PM, David Poehlman wrote: >>> >>>> If you want to talk about the truth, look at the aph publications >>>> about >>>> voiceover over the past couple of years. Loook at all the claims >>>> made by >>>> microsoft about "accessibility" over the past several years. We >>>> have been >>>> told before each release that things will get bettter and in some >>>> ways, they >>>> do but the price is too high. >>>> >>>> I came from a windows and dos background. I am not of the apple >>>> culture and >>>> neither is john. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Tim Grady" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac >>>> OS X by >>>> theblind" <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 6:27 PM >>>> Subject: Re: iTunes Accessibility - have I been mistaken? >>>> >>>> >>>> Considering that one of the main purposes of Itunes is supposed >>>> to be >>>> their store I would say that your 90 percent figure is no better >>>> then >>>> any story you'd get from say a used car salesman. I have noticed >>>> that >>>> Mac users are particularly loyal to Apple and not prone to >>>> telling the >>>> truth. >>>> On Aug 22, 2008, at 1:00 PM, John Panarese wrote: >>>> >>>>> I think there are some assumptions being made here. I don't >>>>> believe at all that anyone is being "ignored". That kind of >>>>> statement seems quite a bit out of place all things considered. >>>>> No >>>>> one knows exactly what is going on with iTunes and what Apple is >>>>> or >>>>> is not doing about it. Also, in regard to overall accessibility, >>>>> I'd say that 90 or 95 percent accessible is a much more accurate >>>>> statement. The iTunes store can still be used and what can't be >>>>> accomplished with VoiceOver surely does not constitute 50 percent >>>>> inaccessible. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Take Care >>>>> >>>>> John Panarese >>>>> >>>>> On Aug 22, 2008, at 8:58 AM, Tim Grady wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Your right about that, and just to show you how much they're >>>>>> ignoring your concerns just take a look at every time there is an >>>>>> update to Itunes. Now this is only a small problem but the point >>>>>> is that it would really be an easy fix would they decide to make >>>>>> it. Did you ever notice that after an update you couldn't buy a >>>>>> song without hitting a totally inaccessible button? >>>>>> On Aug 21, 2008, at 12:37 PM, Dan Eickmeier wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Also I believe the innitial setup of an account is not >>>>>>> accessible either. >>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2008, at 11:10 AM, will lomas wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> i think they know about it and we just have to wait and wait >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> wait >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 21 Aug 2008, at 14:29, UCLA Bruins Fan wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> we can purchase songs, assuming someone has helped us set up >>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>> account, because this feature is still inaccessible. I don't >>>>>>>>> know what else we can do to persuade apple to fix this issue! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2008, at 12:33 AM, will lomas wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> we can buy songs from it so it is half way there but the >>>>>>>>>> window >>>>>>>>>> for buying albums etc is not. i still don't see why it >>>>>>>>>> takes 2 >>>>>>>>>> years to fix this >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 21 Aug 2008, at 05:42, Chris Gilland wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> your friend is exactly right. the store window isn't >>>>>>>>>>> accessible in the least. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Chris. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Do you need help with legal matters? Would you like to have >>>>>>>>>>> access to legal advice 24 hours a day, 7 days a week? How >>>>>>>>>>> about assistance creating/modifying your will? Are you in >>>>>>>>>>> need of identity theft protection? I'd be happy to assist >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Please visit my web site at: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.prepaidlegal.com/hub/chrisgilland >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> or E-mail me at: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Phone: 704-817-8846 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thank you and have a blessed day. >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ricky Buchanan" >>>>>>>>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> Mac OS X by theblind" <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 12:17 AM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: iTunes Accessibility - have I been mistaken? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> G'day, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I read an article by Peter Abrams about the accessibility >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> the iPhone. It's about the *lack of* accessibility of the >>>>>>>>>>>> iPhone, mostly. Anyway, in the comments of course there's >>>>>>>>>>>> the requisite - I thought - idiot saying that iTunes isn't >>>>>>>>>>>> accessible. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I assumed this was a Windows user who had no clue and I was >>>>>>>>>>>> rather, erm, strident in informing him of his mistaken >>>>>>>>>>>> beliefs. Anyway, he's replied again listing specifics of >>>>>>>>>>>> what he can't do (mainly, interact with the main iTunes >>>>>>>>>>>> Story window in any way) and saying that "his blind >>>>>>>>>>>> friend" >>>>>>>>>>>> is not just a Leopard user but a beta tester for VO. I'm >>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>> a VO user myself as many of you know, so I'm concerned >>>>>>>>>>>> that I >>>>>>>>>>>> may have ended up with both feet in my mouth here! >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The article is here: >>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.it-analysis.com/business/change/content.php?cid=10678 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> If you search for "Big Man" you'll jump to his first >>>>>>>>>>>> comment. >>>>>>>>>>>> If you want to leave a reply on that web page, please >>>>>>>>>>>> please >>>>>>>>>>>> please be very polite and no flaming! Just facts about >>>>>>>>>>>> whether he's right or not... I don't want to create >>>>>>>>>>>> problems >>>>>>>>>>>> or "apple fanboy rage" or make VO users look bad in any >>>>>>>>>>>> way. >>>>>>>>>>>> If you want to reply on the list, I'll leave another >>>>>>>>>>>> comment >>>>>>>>>>>> there with links to the list replies via the archives. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>> Ricky >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> ATMac - http://atmac.org/ - Assistive Technology for Mac >>>>>>>>>>>> OS X >>>>>>>>>>>> Users >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > >
