agreed! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anne Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS X by theblind" <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 5:51 AM Subject: Re: Really annoying issue with editing in text boxes.
Hello everyone, I would be horrified if Apple changed this just to suit switchers. As it is, we have the same experience as sighted users. There is a little vertical line, called an I-beam, which sits between two characters and that's the Insertion point, so whatever you type goes in right after the Insertion point, and pressing the Backspace removes the character to the left of the Insertion point. Cheers, Anne >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Christopher Gilland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 5:09 PM >> Subject: Fw: Really annoying issue with editing in text boxes. >> >> >> I sent this to Apple Accessibility. >> >> Do any of yall have any thoughts? >> >> Chris. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Christopher Gilland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 5:04 PM >> Subject: Really annoying issue with editing in text boxes. >> >> >>> I am a voiceover user using Leopard 10.5.5. >>> >>> I have noticed this issue as far back as the first release of Tiger. >>> >>> Basically, it's gonna be hard for me to type out what is happening, >>> being this is more an auditory based thing, so try to stick with me >>> on this. I really hope I don't confuse you all. >>> >>> OK, I have a document up, o... let's just say, in, o? I dunno. >>> Text Edit, >>> we'll just say for sakes being. >>> >>> OK, I have typed the following line of text in a new, blank text >>> document. >>> Please pay extremely close attention to how I've typed this both >>> gramatically, and also spelling: >>> >>> The colors of tHe flag r red. white. and blUe? >>> >>> Boy, this sentence is r'r'r'really! messed up! >>> >>> Let's edit it. >>> >>> OK, I go to the beginning of that line with command+left arrow. >>> >>> I hear the word, The. >>> >>> OK, so now I move word by word, with option right arrow. >>> >>> The >>> colors >>> of >>> tHe >>> >>> Whoops? We gotta booboo here. OK, so, I hit right arrow. >>> >>> I hear space. UM? OK? >>> >>> I hit left arrow. I hear again: Space. What in the heck? >>> >>> I hit left arrow again. I hear E. aa, K. now we're getting there. >>> I left arrow again. I hear cap H. There we go. I need to delete >>> this and put a lower case h, instead of capital. So I hit the >>> delete >>> key, then type lower case h. >>> >>> Now, if I read the current line with vo+L, I hear: >>> >>> hhe colors of tHe flag r red. white. and blUe? >>> >>> What? in the world? Why did it do? that! >>> >>> I called a friend for help, and what he told me is the following. >>> I've >>> pasted his response below: >>> >>> >>> Wo wo wol Chris! Hold on here. Wol! Ur'r'r'rk? >>> >>> Um? You're kind a failing to see something here: You're thinking >>> Windows again. Stop doing that. Voiceover, thank God, doesn't work >>> like JAWS. >>> You can't edit that way. The thing is, Chris, as you left and right >>> arrow, you know how in Windows, your insertion point is gonna be >>> right on the actual character that it speaks? Well, un? >>> fortunately, >>> in Voiceover, it's not quite that simple. In VO, it is actually >>> reading to you the character that your insertion point passes over, >>> rather than the way Windows does it, with jfw, by reading the >>> character you're sitting on. >>> >>> This is why when you hit the left arrow then delete, it did what it >>> did. >>> >>> Let's say, Chris, that you type the word Hello, but instead of h, e, >>> l, l, o, you did: h, e, k, k, o. Hekko? What the hell kind a word >>> is that! >>> >>> So, you wanna get rid of those two k's, and replace them with l's. >>> Right? >>> OK, What I'd! do, Chris, is I would option right arrow, until I hear >>> Hekko. Now remember, Chris, you're not on the word Hekko. Because >>> you >>> were working to the right in the document, where are you really? >>> cor, >>> rect! You're to the right! of the word hekko. That is definitely >>> not >>> where we wanna be, is it? So hit option left arrow one time. >>> You'll hear >>> again: Hekko. Can you explain to me Chris, why that is? The >>> reason's, because now, you moved to the left! of the word Hekko. >>> See... >>> you're not >>> on the word actually. That's where you're getting confused. On the >>> Mac, unlike in Windows, there is! no such thing, as being quote, >>> unquote, on! a character/word. You have to be on either trailing >>> side of it, and depending on whether you've done left arrow, or >>> right >>> arrow, will determine which side you're on. OK, so now. We're to >>> the left of the word Hekko. hit you're right arrow. You'll hear >>> cap >>> H. however, watch this. read your current character with vo+C. Did >>> you see what it did? It said E. It didn't say H did it. ok, now >>> hit left arrow. What did you hear? You heard E again didn't you. >>> Now, hit vo C. Notice it said H? >>> See? it's telling you what your cursor passed over! not! what it's >>> actually on. so hit right arrow once. You heard E. Actually >>> though, >>> it passed the letter e, and since you're working to the right, it >>> now >>> is sitting on the right side of the letter E. So I betcha, if you >>> now hit vo C, it'll say K. See that? You're now actually sitting >>> on >>> the first letter K in Hekko. So, hit your delete key twice. now, >>> type ll. >>> >>> Now read the current line with vo+L. >>> >>> Hello >>> >>> See? Mission accomplished! >>> >>> >>> End of response from my friend. >>> >>> >>> God! blessid! That confused me. I don't totally get what he's >>> saying about it passing over things etc. That's driving me to >>> drinking, as I can't hardly edit a document this way. >>> >>> Is there any way to think about this differently, or at least, maybe >>> a way in a future update, maybe under navigation in the vo utility, >>> yall could make a checkbox, to make it behave more like Windows and >>> speak what it's actually under instead of what it passes? God. I'm >>> sure I'm not the first newly migrating user from Windows to a Mac, >>> who's ran into this. I dono if it's a bug, that yall didn't really >>> fix, as most people don't really seem to care, they just deal with >>> it, or if you all purposefully made it this way, but no offense. In >>> all do respect though guys, this! is outstandingly disgusting! >>> >>> Ewww! Yoyk! You can imagine for people who have to work in other >>> languages that don't use the standard lattin based alphebet, you can >>> imagine for someone like that, how Godly hard this would be to edit. >>> >>> Say in Arabic, you're wanting to type Allah. >>> >>> Yes, you could do: A, l, l, A, h. but what if you're really typing >>> arabic. >>> >>> Alif, lam, lam, heh. >>> >>> now that is Not! gonna read with vo if you use the actual Arabic >>> letters, so, editting that? being you don't know what you're >>> literally, on, as it's passing things, not reporting what you're >>> sitting on? Now you got yourself a double! challenge. Trying first >>> to figure out what characters you got, and B, figuring out where >>> your >>> cursor really truely is sitting, not what it's passed over. >>> >>> just, ya know: >>> >>> Be aware of this. It is something that I really think you all may >>> wanna consider looking into as it's so confusing to me, it's almost >>> making me scared of Leopard, and really wanna use it less and less. >>> It just cfeels so awquard! Any suggestions? >>> >>> Chris. >> >> >> >> >> > > Scott Howell > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > >
