hmm, I see this build was created in october of 07. I could try this
but would feel better if I could find something more recent. David is
someone whose work I know well.
I've already read Aaron's take on this and re-reading it reminds me of
something. He is confusing voiceover with jaws and window eyes. He
wants access to the vo team. Well, He can get that but he needs to go
hrough proper chanels and appoint someone. I did not see anything
about more work in 09.
On Dec 29, 2008, at 2:36 PM, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote:
On 29/12/08 17:51, David Poehlman wrote:
all well and good but the statements below demonstrate that it is
possible for them to make ff accessible.
It's possible if you (or anyone else) can offer code that solves the
problems they've run into.
I don't know how oo was made
accessible, I don't know how opera was made accessible
That doesn't sound like a position of strength from which to dismiss
the difficulties these developers encountered as "excuses".
I do know though that they point the way to others.
How? Have the OpenOffice.org developers produced any code that solves
Mozilla's problems?
look at tables too.
How? Is the Tables developer offering code solutions to Mozilla's
problems?
I'm sorry, All
this shows me is what the excuses are and not what the real problems
are.
Why are these "excuses" not "real problems"? If they aren't "real
problems", what would a theoretical example of a "real problem" be?
Yes, I do know that there is some information lacking but to stop
short of accessibility using coco because "we don't want to do it that
way" is not enouh to convince me that there is a problem that prevents
accessibility.
I'm not clear how your vaguely expressed conception of "accessibility
using Cocoa" differs from what all three vendors (Apple, Opera,
Mozilla) are attempting, with varying success, to provide.
If you're just talking about widgets sets, Apple and Mozilla (and I'd
bet Opera too, though I can't find any official statement to that
effect) are not providing "accessibility using Cocoa" using native
Aqua widgets for good reason - because they can't do the job required
of browser widgets - not from pure caprice as you imply.
You said yourself that they
turned their attention elsewhere and haven't worked on this since 06.
While progress ran into the ground, I didn't say anything about
stopping in 2006. To quote Aaron's blog post and subsequent comments:
"Håkan made multiple attempts from 2006-2008 to get assistance from
Apple, and received replies but no follow-up. … the Mozilla team is
planning to give VoiceOver compatibility another shot this year [2009]"
http://accessgarage.wordpress.com/2008/08/21/firefox-and-os-xs-voiceover-reading-the-magic-8-ball/
I think talking about "they" is rather problematic here, anyways. A
lot of progress in an open source project happens because a person
chooses to devote their time and energy to making that progress
happen. The last person who tried to do this (Håkan) for Mac OS X
accessibility for Firefox found it a frustrating experience. Other
people have other hobby-horses.
The excuses though need to be revealed for what they are.
These problems to which you offer no solutions are not being presented
as "excuses"; and simply saying they are "excuses" doesn't make them
so or make them disappear.
> I'll be happy to use ff on the mac when I can.
Well, if you want to experiment with things in the state they are -
and experience any performance problems and bugs first hand - you can
apparently build Firefox for the Mac with accessibility enabled:
http://mindforks.blogspot.com/2007/10/building-firefox-with-accessibility-on.html
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Mac:Accessibility
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
