Quick warning it's a Sunday email and I ramble a bit...
On 09/26/2010 07:46 AM, Christoph Noack wrote:
Hi everyone!
Am Samstag, den 25.09.2010, 22:21 -0600 schrieb Larry Gusaas:
On 2010/09/25 9:16 PM Harold Fuchs wrote:
Ah. OK Now I see, thanks. The icon for each type of *document* - text,
spreadsheet, presentation etc.
Yes, I agree. That's very poor and should be changed. Has someone filed an
issue? What Issue Number? -
I'll vote for it.
Issue #112141. Currently 240 votes for it. The new icons were imposed on us by
the ODF cabal and Oracle
despite protests and lack of proper community input. Despite protests the
decision has not been changed.
It seems to be a political decision beyond the control of the developers or the
community. So much for
the fiction that OOo is a community driven project.
Without being able to add something substantial at the moment; there is
also a request to the OpenOffice.org Community Council to discuss this
issue. Besides the issue, it might help to know more about the involved
parties.
In the agenda table, please scroll down to "2010-04-29#2".
The page:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Agenda
Bye,
Christoph
Hi Chris,
I've pretty much avoided this whole conversation, the color in icon part
of it anyway, but a good time to jump in and yes hijack this thread perhaps.
I say hijack because, IMO, the root cause of the longevity and the
evolving tenor of this issue is not monochromatic icons. Nor is it the
absurd amount of time it's taking to all nod in agreement on a logo and
it's uses, or the broader question of Branding.
However, Branding may be the term that gets closest to the actual, IMO,
issues at play.
OpenOffice.org is FOSS - by definition then there is always the option
for members of the project to fork to another. There is in the end
nothing the parent project can do about it, short of keeping folks in
such a mind that they choose not to do so.
If however some segment of the project members do choose to do so, there
really isn't any way to stop them.
What the parent project can do is control copyrighted materials - the
branding.
Sun had, it appears, a rather liberal policy, by action perhaps more
then stated policy, when it came to who could do what with these
branding items. Which can be stated another way - they did very little
to defend their copyright claims with regards to OpenOffice.org branding
elements.
I recall that one of the first discussions I joined on an OO.o mailing
list was in regards to vendors on the internet selling download links
for OpenOffice.org binaries - pretty much a straight off scam, if
nothing else a totally un-ethical business. Time wise that was somewhere
in late 2004, early 2005. I will not make a long story out of this
point, as most reading here already know it. When however did the owner
of the project finally get around to enforcing the copyrights - just
before the Oracle buy out. Do you not think this was Oracle insisting
that Sun actually get about doing their fiduciary responsibility with
regards to the item for sale, OpenOffice.org. Of course it was, IMO. A
good thing for the common person, sure, the driving reason for the
action, less certain.
I think that of more concern to Oracle were the members of the
OpenOffice.org community already developing and supporting shallow forks
of the code. Those that used not only the code but the branding elements
also, being of most concern, yet not exclusive of those with much
different branding.
Right here I want to say one thing - there is nothing in any of that
which is inappropriate from the perspective of any organization looking
to acquire the assets of another.
Now, to expand a little and more conjecture on my part - there was
another process in play. The realization by many that the real benefits
of what started 10 years ago, perhaps the longest term benefits, will be
realized not by having a binary copy of OpenOffice.org 5 on 51% of the
desktops in the world, 10 years hence. Rather it would be more important
to have 51% of all documents created 10 years form now in an open
standard format.
I think they are right. That doesn't mean that I don't want to also see
51% of the desktops with OpenOffice.org, I do, and I believe that was
(is) true for the group of individuals who proposed the idea of a more
universal iconography for ODF mime types.
The problem here is that to do this right would take a lot of
interaction with other projects and that means a lot of time. Remember
though that in the discussions, particularly on the UX mailing lists,
the term 'urgency' was used a number of times. At one point someone even
said (paraphrasing here) "that if you knew what I know" as a way to
enhance this need for swift action in making the changes. Why this
urgency. My *guess* - a response to Oracle's assertiveness and the
realization perhaps that Oracle was not viewing OpenOffice.org as 'an
also has' asset in the Sun acquisition, but low and behold, they
actually had an idea of what they would do with the asset. The details
of which not necessarily married up perfectly with the FOSS sentiments
of many Sun employees. (another wild assumption on my part)
Eventually then a confluence of these different driving factors - the
desire to support ODF adoption, a good idea, the desire on Oracle's part
to create an unequivocal Oracle brand to the project and this feeling in
both parties for urgency. New logo, new color theme and new icons -
sooner rather then later.
Let's look finally at the new logo and it's use policy, or lack there
of. I personally asked to use the new logo on a pdf file to be
distributed for Document Freedom Day in March of this year - to
date...honestly...I have not heard any authoritative response. Because
they can't, it has nothing to do with me, it has everything IMO to do
with those pesky shallow forks.
OpenWorld is over - Oracle Cloud Office has been revealed and is TTBOMK
a proprietary software application, built with proprietary tools,
specifically JavaFX.
The Sun folks in Hamburg and the Oracle staff had to know that if this
was to be the Oracle plan that it would test the strength of the bonds
within the OpenOffice.org community. Here I do not mean only those, like
myself, acting as individuals, but that it would stress the bonds with
the different commercial vendors and non-profit organizations that make
up the bulk of the community.
The last word, as found in the referenced Community Council minutes
above, is that some modification to the icons, for UX reason, would
begin - that this will now include the wider community, but with limits.
OK, actually that's fair enough.
I would suppose that given the covers are finally off the new Oracle
product the time to openly discuss, in detail, the future of the current
OpenOffice.org code line is also finally here. Icons included..
Best wishes to all those that read this, those I know personally and
those for whom I have not yet had the pleasure,
Drew
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