Torrie Fischer <[email protected]> wrote: * Many of us feel uncomfortable with letting a 7 year old roam around without someone responsible watching them.
I did not feel this way and I don't feel that Torrie can speak for "Many of us", In fact, I had offered to show Robert how to run the 3D printer. I have shown other "seven year old's" how to run the 3D printer and they have done just fine. On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Michael Griesacker <[email protected]>wrote: > Rob, I will try to be brief. The discussion brought up some concerns, and > the topic of discussion was member/family pricing. As an aside, we > discussed our current rules concerning keys: Non-members are barred from > having keys, keys are non-transferrable between members. -also: There is > responsibility/risk of a keyholder, and when asked "what's the youngest age > a member should be to be entrusted to be at the space alone by themselves > in case of accident, emergency, other" the consensus of the small group was > 18yrs. I agree Robert is far more mature and responsible for his age, but > we felt it time to discuss some general rules, not exceptions. Seeing > Robert is intending to be chaperoned to the space by a parent, this is not > a conflict, except for the key part, and we felt that fit nicely into the > "family membership" pricing discussion. Technically, his membership, -if > going under the student clause would be $15. If an adult family member > joined, his membership would drop to 5$ and the first adult would be $35, > the second adult $15. > > I wouldn't have worded "nice stuff" so much as sharp and pokey if the > wrong end is used for the wrong thing. This is a makeshift electronics > lab/workshop, not a padded romper room (envisioning Mcdonalds play area). > We are all delighted to have Robert join, but did not fully think through > all the aspects. We all know Robert wouldn't be riding his bycicle here, > or being dropped off while mom goes to the grocery store. So I apologize > for the wording coming off as an attack on you and your wife's parenting > skills or to your son. We all feel that he should be encouraged and > nurtured as much as possible, but want to make sure we are setting some > healthy/reasonable boundaries. If you are willing to willing to work with > us on this minor growing pain, I think we can settle on a reasonable > solution that doesn't include 100x more fire extinguishers. Again, all of > this proposed has not been voted on by the membership group, just discussed > by our subcommittee, and released for general discussion. > > best regards, > > > On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 12:37 AM, Robert Rybicki <[email protected] > > wrote: > >> Sorry for the double post. Craig I thank you for sharing your story and >> your warm confirmation about membership. That is the kind of kinship we >> should all strive for. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Apr 11, 2014, at 10:56 PM, Craig Bergdorf <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> (Happy to hear the argument about age having little to do with anything. >> I think I can get away with saying 29 when anyone asks for the foreseeable >> future, and before that it was 23, 16, 13, etc. I won't pretend I don't >> still have a bit of a complex on judgement based on age, being the awkward >> but tall kid dragged to mensa meetings their whole childhood that some >> drunkens would occasionally "mistake for a peer", then came the question >> that still cuts to the bone "how old are you?" ) >> >> A member is a member. >> Since the seven year old member is my son, I will add my opinions to the >> discussion. >> >> First and foremost I want to express my sad displeasure in reading this. >> Perhaps this being paraphrased ideas of a discussion many things are >> getting lost in translation. However the things I have issue with are >> listed as "problems" >> >> My seven year old lives 46 minutes driving distance from the space and >> does not currently drive himself places. If he was of driving age and as a >> parent I decided he was mature enough to go places by himself, or use shop >> tools, or as you put it "nice things" then I would let him go do those >> things. Perhaps sometimes I would go with him at times to check on how safe >> he is still being. Perhaps also I would put two gps tracking devices on his >> car so when he finds the first one I have redundancy. Also guaranteed I, or >> a close and not easily recognizable friend would tail him at times. The >> point I am trying to make here, is my son that is a member of syn/hak, is >> not autonomous yet, and when the time comes that he is, we will still >> parent him. >> >> The way "nice things" is worded I am taken back to my own childhood when >> my evil aunt had us over and I was confined to the kitchen, because she had >> a house full of collectable garbage (much like syn/hak,) and I was too much >> of "an animal" to go into the rest of the rooms in the house. If there are >> concerns about your members not being able to handle tool, machines, >> supplies, or members projects (again, I'm fuzzy on what is nice,) perhaps >> those concerns could be brought up to that member or the members guardian. >> My wife was at the meeting with our seven year old. Nothing was said. >> >> Robert W in in fact seven and is more responsible than myself at times. >> If you tell him a rule, good luck trying to change it after that, because >> it has already been programmed. He is excited to be part of this community. >> A community he and believe in and he absolutely belongs in. He is also >> excited to gain full 24/7 access to the space because of my unusual >> schedule. If entrusted with something and told how important it is he will >> follow through every time. Go shooting with him sometime and he will give >> you a lesson in gun safety and have better muzzle control than you do. My >> younger child is more haphazard as a matter of personality and he will not >> be going to the space for the foreseeable future because I can not trust >> him. >> >> I recognize this is a matter of policy and not an attack on my child. I >> struggle with it, but I recognize it. Perhaps it would have been more >> excellent to just say minor, then call out your only seven year old member. >> It makes us feel like he is unwanted or not trusted. Again things that >> should have been brought up at the meeting. He applied for membership at >> the suggestion of Torrie. He was vouched for by Torrie and Becca. His full >> membership was consented on by the members at this weeks meeting. He was >> not made an associate member, an honorary member, or a previsionary member. >> He was accepted by what appeared to be open arms. >> >> I realize syn/hak is not a daycare. Torrie expressed this concern to me >> the night Robert W turned in his application. I thought I made it clear >> then that he would never be at the space without myself or a close family >> member there. That said I agree that a mature person should be watching >> unknown or immature people. I have a problem with an age being just set at >> a magical number of 18. Poof your 18 now, you can handle all the nice >> things, go play and have fun. >> >> Here is my counter proposal if you will. If anyone has a problem with >> minors or in this case seven year olds don't make them members. Or perhaps >> since maturity is not a function of age it would be more appropriate to >> bring up concerns during the interview process, and then decide that some >> kids can or cannot be members because they and their guardians are not a >> good fit. >> If there are concerns with a member, or if the member is a minor, that >> minor and their guardians, then don't issue a key; keep age out of it. Age >> has nothing to do with anything in my opinion and it is more a matter of >> character. Perhaps their will come a day there is a teen or two that >> really need syn/hak in their life because the sports teams and the kids >> that play on them don't understand said teen. These decisions need to be >> made on a case by case basis as I was under the impression they already >> are. Making a policy against minors is foolish and not excellent. >> >> In closing, I am hurt. However, in a sick way I feel closer to syn/hak >> now. As if I went through a right-of-passage. Robert W and I got called out >> on discuss like I see others do to each other on a weekly basis. I am not >> the kind of personality to be nice to your face then get high and mighty >> behind the safety of a keyboard. I am not introverted and I prefer personal >> conflict resolution. If you have a problem with me or my family as a matter >> of excellence it will be addressed directly to me or my family before it >> gets thrown up on discuss. >> >> Thank you all for your time >> Robert S Rybicki >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> > On Apr 11, 2014, at 7:18 PM, Torrie Fischer <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >> > Hi, all. >> > >> > We had a very good discussion at the space tonight about membership >> dues and >> > such. >> > >> > Here's a draft: >> > >> > https://synhak.org/wiki/Membership/Sandbox >> > >> > The notable things: >> > >> > * There is still a 10% discount for buying 3+ months in advance, but it >> covers >> > the whole payment regardless of how many people you're paying for. >> > * Base membership is still $35/mo >> > * It is $15 per adult in a family instead of $35 >> > * Each minor under 18 years old is $5/mo in a family >> > * Keys may not be issued to those who are under 18 earth years of age >> > * Minors must have an adult supervising them at all times and the >> permission >> > of their legal parent/guardian >> > >> > This solves the following problems: >> > >> > * Many of us feel uncomfortable with letting a 7 year old have a key to >> our >> > Nice Things, which is a very big responsibility >> > * Families often aren't all using the space at the same time >> > * Many of us feel uncomfortable with letting a 7 year old roam around >> without >> > someone responsible watching them >> > >> > I'll be adding this to the agenda for next Tuesday for discussion. >> > >> > Feedback is welcome as always :) >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Discuss mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > [email protected] > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >
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