On Jun 27, 2008, at 3:35 PM, David Rees wrote:
Way OT, but hopefully others find it interesting...
On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 4:04 PM, Jim Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I find this an interesting argument, but I'd like to see some real
analysis
(with numbers), or at least sources.
If you're right, I'm doing it wrong (3 old trucks (2 toyota
landcruisers,
one 67 chevy converted to a flatbed) + selling new computer
components).
I don't see much evidence (in the US) for the post-consumer
recycling of
vehicles.
I was wrong about 90%+ of automobiles by weight being recycled, I
think I got that mixed up with lead-acid batteries. Automobiles are
recycled about 75% by weight - from what I understand, it's the most
highly recycled "appliances" there are. Just Google for "automobile
recycling".
likely this will continue to decline with time, given that an
increasing amount of automobiles are made from composites (like
plastic) rather than metals.
In terms of emissions, new vehicles are so much less
polluting. In terms of energy expenditure, it's only worth replacing
if you are replacing it with something more efficient.
Ah well:
The 74 landcruiser runs an engine/trans out of a 97 blazer, with
nearly all the emissions gear intact. Far more fuel efficient, far
far fewer emissions.
The 88 landcruiser has been converted to a turbo diesel and runs on
B100 bio-diesel, (sometimes a mixture of straight veggie oil), way,
way more fuel efficient.
The 69 Chevy truck has a very mild smallblock 350 in it, but it runs
methanol, which I recover from making the biodiesel that runs in the
88. Since it also carries the tank
that I use to collect the veggie oil, I essentially get two 'uses' out
of the methanol.
So none of them pollute like they used to (well the diesel may
generate more particulates than the engine it replaced, but far less
of the other crap that came out of the tailpipe.
Only the 74 runs on gasoline. Its not been worthwhile (yet) to pull
that engine and drop in a small diesel, so I pay $4.50/gallon for my
lack of foresight.
And hey, I work at home, so I don't have a big commute.
And computers get replaced far more often. The newest car I own is
a 1988
landcruiser. The other is a 1974. I can't imagine running
pfsense on a
circa 1988 computer.
Nope. And how much of your typical PC do you think is recycled by
weight?
that depends on how you define PC. have you looked at the 'e-waste'
recycling laws that are going onto the books around the US (and
presumably, world)?
have you ever wondered why Apple/Dell/HP/... will all take back your
old machine *for free* if you buy a new one from them, and otherwise
will take back your
old e-waste for a minimal per-pound charge?
Here on Oahu, the plastics get burn-off by H-Power to make
electricity, the metal chassis gets sent the the mainland, and the
mobo gets ground into tiny chips.
Most of the (CRT) monitor is toxic waste though.
Back on topic - pfSense is great in that it's perfectly functional for
the vast majority of users on something as small and inexpensive as an
ALIX box with a 400-500MHz CPU and 128-256MB ram. This means you could
run pfSense on 10 year old hardware (that's about what was common 10
years ago) without any issues if you want.
10 year old PC hardware is likely fine (assuming that the mobo hasn't
started to whisker, and that the capacitors are all intact).
20 year old PC hardware (which is what I suggested wasn't workable)?
Well, remember that Intel released the 486 in 1989, so you're stuck
with a 40Mhz 386, MAX.
Of course, in all these cases, you need to look at how much energy
goes in to production, and how much goes in during use. Unfortunately,
there are so many variables involved that it's difficult to say when
it's better to replace something with something new - but in general -
the longer you plan on using something, the quicker it makes sense to
replace that something with something more efficient.
In terms of PC hardware, and most other electronics, agreed. In terms
of durable goods with very large per-unit manufacturing inputs (cars
trucks factory machines, houses)... not so much.
In fact, in the normal case, where you just leave a PC plugged in and
running, but not actually doing anything, you're likely better off
replacing your old P4 (or earlier).
Jim
