On Fri, 02 Mar 2018 10:51:41 +0100
Marek Černocký <ma...@manet.cz> wrote:

> Vývojář GLib nedávno začal řešit správné tvarosloví měsíců v datech. 
> Proběhla o tom nějaká diskuze v konferencích na GNOME. Změny byly 
> implementovány. Se mnou teď začal řešit věci okolo češtiny. Kdyby to 
> někoho zajímalo a případně měl něco k tématu, tak přeposílám. Případně 
> můžu hodit naši konferenci do CC.

Díky, Marku. Jen pro úplnost připomenu, že to je vlastně ta stejná debata,
kterou jsme tady řešili v lednu:

http://lists.l10n.cz/pipermail/diskuze/2018-January/002530.html

pk
 
 
> -------- Původní zpráva --------
> Předmět: Re: Czech translation updates in GLib
> Datum: 2.3.2018 10:41
> Odesílatel: Marek Černocký <ma...@manet.cz>
> Adresát: Rafal Luzynski <digitalfr...@lingonborough.com>
> 
> About the Wikipedia article: It's good and it isn't in conflict. "2. 
> březen" in caption is "day name" not "date". Uh ... simply said Czech 
> has very complicated morphology. If you will see down in this article, 
> you will find dates and this dates are in genitiv (e.g. 21. března 
> 1915).
> 
> I will try build GLib over this weekend and I will report you the 
> results.
> 
> M.
> 
> Dne 2.3.2018 17:59, Rafal Luzynski napsal:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Thank you. Your sources look very reliably. It's clear to me that they
> > don't mention a nominative case, e.g., don't say that "both forms are
> > correct" or even "only the nominative case is correct".
> > 
> > My concern is that Wikipedia uses the nominative case, for example:
> > 
> > https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/2._b%C5%99ezen
> > 
> > But if the genitive case is correct (and Wikipedia is wrong, well, this
> > happens as well) then I should apply the same change to glibc which is
> > the basic source of locale data for all Linux applications. Please note
> > that GLib data which you have provided will be used only on the systems
> > where libc does not provide its own locale data or provides them 
> > incorrectly.
> > Are you able to build your GLib with your updates on any Linux with 
> > glibc 2.26
> > or older (e.g., Fedora 27 or older) and run an application using this 
> > GLib,
> > and see how the dates are displayed?
> > 
> > Here is my private fork of glibc with the locale data not yet committed
> > to the main repository, you may review if this is what you want:
> > 
> > https://github.com/rluzynski/glibc/commits/master
> > 
> > (you must scroll down to cs_CZ).
> > 
> > Have you got an account on Sourceware.org Bugzilla? Would you like to
> > file a bug report that Czech language wants a genitive case and wants
> > to backport it to glibc 2.27, like this bug report for Catalan:
> > https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=22848 ?
> > Or do you want me to file it? Can I quote your links as a proof that
> > Czech language needs a genitive case?
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Rafal
> > 
> > 
> > 2.03.2018 09:39 Marek Černocký <ma...@manet.cz> wrote:
> >> 
> >>  My personal answer: the ginitive sounds more natural. I'm sure people 
> >> said
> >> "It's definitely wrong to use a genitive case in dates in Czech 
> >> language" are
> >> confused.
> >>  I tried found any oficial position:
> >> 
> >>  http://prirucka.ujc.cas.cz/?id=810
> >>  This is the official page of Ústav pro jazyk český which is a 
> >> official
> >> authority for the Czech language.
> >> 
> >>  https://portal.zcu.cz/CoursewarePortlets2/DownloadDokumentu?id=126591
> >>  This is a Czech norm ČSN 01 6910 "Guidelines for text presentation". 
> >> A
> >> chapter 12.4 talks about the data formats.
> >> 
> >>  The genitive form is used in the both mentioned sources.
> >> 
> >>  Best regards
> >>  Marek
> >> 
> >>  Rafal Luzynski píše v Pá 02. 03. 2018 v 01:28 +0100:
> >>    > >
> >> >    Hello,
> >> >
> >> >    Yesterday you updated the Czech translation in GLib, here:
> >> >
> >> >    https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/glib/commit/4e8a4d0
> >> >
> >> >    This includes a list of month names in nominative/genitive
> >> >    case. My question is: are you sure this is OK? I dare to ask
> >> >    because I asked several Czech people and the answers whether
> >> >    this is correct or not were mixed. Some people said that it's
> >> >    definitely wrong to use a genitive case in dates in Czech
> >> >    language, some said that both forms are correct, some said
> >> >    that a genitive case looks more natural but it's not wrong
> >> >    to use a nominative case. From now if you pass a date format
> >> >    "%d. %B %Y" (which AFAIK is the correct Czech format) to
> >> >    g_date_time_format() the output will be "2. března 2018".
> >> >    Previously it was "2. březen 2018". If this is correct, if
> >> >    you want this and so do all Czech translators and users then
> >> >    this change should be applied consequently everywhere, first
> >> >    of all to glibc where the infrastructure is ready and the
> >> >    Czech locale data have not been updated just because there
> >> >    was no consensus in the Czech community.
> >> >
> >> >    You can find my proposal of updates in glibc here:
> >> >    https://github.com/rluzynski/glibc/commits/master
> >> >
> >> >    Or maybe you want to see how it works in GLib/GNOME first?
> >> >
> >> >    Otherwise, if you don't want a genitive case I suggest rewording
> >> >    your recent translation update in GLib.
> >> >
> >> >    Best regards,
> >> >
> >> >    Rafal
> >> >
> >> >  >
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