Jim Fulton wrote: > I couldn't agree more. As an application developer, I want to deliver > complete self-enclosed applications. I think that's why many > application developers gravitate towards systems like buildout and > virtualenv/pip. In fact, the tendency of system Python's to be > customized by system packagers or system administrators often make the > unsuitable for supporting applications. When delivering applications > to be installed by end users, I try to include everything needed, > generally including Python. (I haven't been in this position for quite > some time.)
That relates to the "python needs to be a platform" idea.Taking again the numpy/scipy case, I would love to get something like a robust easy_install, where scientific toolboxes can be installed, queries, uninstalled from pypi. Having our own 'python' for installation, would make this much easier - but we loose what makes numpy/scipy so attractive in the first place, that is using a lot of great packages outside the numpy/scipy community. Those two goals kind of contradict with each other, I am not sure where the trade-off should be. Maybe python makes this impossible. I would be surprised if this problem were limited to numpy/scipy. > > > Really, many (I'd guess most) web developers who gravitate to > setuptools are drawn by the ability to express and manage > dependencies. They use tools like buildout or virtualenv that avoid > the pitfalls you mention above. I suspect you have more in common with > us than you think. :) I know about virtualenv, pip, yolk (much less about buildout). I even use them sometimes (I never use setuptools outside a virtualenv, for example). But I don't see how this solve the deployment problem. How is virtualenv useful for distribution of software to end users ? On the robustness side of things, I cannot say I am satisfied with the solution either. It is almost always workable, but not good enough for people who do not care much about programming (which I think is the case of a lot of researchers/scientists). We have tons of user problems related to installation/deployment issues. cheers, David _______________________________________________ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
