I posted a thread a while back about the latest version of Oracle 23c which appears to add support for a few things that would fix some of the workarounds we have in the ORM (eg boolean expressions). I know dropping 19c is a long way off but at least the future is looking brighter 🌟
On Wed, 9 Aug 2023, 6:40 pm Carlton Gibson, <carlton.gib...@gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks for raising this Paolo. It's good to discuss, even if we maintain > the status quo. > > I think this will come to a head when Mariusz steps away. It's been him > that's kept it going the last few years, and I'm not at all sure that we > have another currently active contributor that's an Oracle expert. (Perhaps > we do... 🤔) > > It's good to see Chris' comment that Oracle wish to contribute themselves, > but if that doesn't materialise, we're going to need to claim *force > majeure*. > > Q: Are we sure we can maintain Oracle without Mariusz? What does that look > like? If not, we need to make plans for something else. > > > FWIW: If possible I'd like to keep Oracle support if we can — it's good > for the ORM. > (If we could see a way of it being maintainable, I'd have us add SQL > Server in core too — but I don't think that is feasible given the state of > play today). > > > The difference with Windows (of course) is that we have lots of > contributors using it. > > > Kind Regards, > > Carlton > > On Fri, 4 Aug 2023 at 15:19, Paolo Melchiorre <pa...@melchiorre.org> > wrote: > >> Hi Mariusz, >> >> On Thu, Aug 3, 2023 at 8:47 PM Mariusz Felisiak >> <felisiak.mari...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > I'm quite surprised that you've started a new thread for something that >> was already discussed, you could always add a comment to the existing >> thread e.g. >> https://groups.google.com/g/django-developers/c/dg8BUVHKOo4/m/5uFVmdWCAwAJ >> >> I was not aware of this thread, thanks for linking it. >> >> >> I wanted to share the frustration of seeing yet another great new ORM >> feature blocked due to Oracle compatibility: >> https://github.com/django/django/pull/16417 >> > I'm not sure how you reached this conclusion. This is not blocked due >> because of Oracle compatibility. I will review it and try to merge it >> before the Django 5.0 feature freeze. You have to be patient, it has >> nothing to do with Oracle >> >> It was not my intention to push you into reviewing this PR given how >> much you already do. But it seems to me that without Oracle >> compatibility this functionality would have been ready for a long >> time. However, this reflection of mine was born after seeing the >> difficulty of the original contributor to add support to Oracle, at >> the same time I also watch again Carlton's keynote at PyCon Italia >> 2023 because the videos have recently been published. Lastly, while >> volunteering at the DSF booth at EuroPython 2023, I happened to meet >> an Oracle Django developer for the first time, who admitted that he >> had never contributed to the Oracle backend itself. >> >> >> Over the last few months, I've tried to encourage newcomers and young >> users to contribute to Django and they almost always ran into the need to >> provide compatibility to Oracle, so much so that they eventually gave up >> contributing. >> > Really? Django is not only the ORM. It is easy to demonize Oracle. I'm >> working with contributors on daily basis, and don't remember anyone who >> would resign because we have builtin Oracle backend. We don't have much >> more open tickets in the Oracle backend then in others. The number of >> unsupported features is similar to SQLite or MySQL. >> >> In my personal experience, the people I collaborate with at work or >> meet in the local communities where I go to talk about Django all have >> experience with Open Source databases and none have ever worked with >> Oracle, which makes it very difficult for them to try to contribute in >> Django's ORM why should they ensure compatibility for this DB without >> ever having seen it. >> >> >> The point is that I think Oracle is a historical anomaly among the >> database backends supported by Django because it is the only one that is >> not Open Source, it has irrelevant usage numbers >> > It's not an anomaly. Oracle support was a conscious decision, keeping >> the ORM features Oracle-compatible is a good battlefield, that helps >> keeping the ORM friendly for 3rd-party database backends as we have more >> feature flags and hooks for custom behaviors. >> >> I think this would be the same if the Oracle backend was a third-party >> package, perhaps maintained by the same company >> >> >> ... and the company that earns from it does not contribute in any way >> to its maintenance or support >> > Should be also drop support for Windows for exactly the same reason? >> (rhetorical question) >> >> I don't know, I haven't used Windows since 2000 :-) >> >> Anyway, tornado to talk about Database, SQL Server is a third-party >> package >> >> >> I, therefore, suggest that we start a discussion on removing Oracle >> from supported databases. >> > This was already discussed. I'm still strongly against it. >> >> Thank you for your point of view, and also for all the extra work you >> do to help Django contributors who are having trouble making their >> functionality compatible with Oracle. >> >> I reiterate that my only intention was to understand if I were the >> only one to have this point of view without wanting to criticize >> anyone's work or past choices, things simply change in the field of >> information technology and choices could be reviewed after years. >> >> Ciao, >> Paolo >> >> -- >> Paolo Melchiorre >> >> https://www.paulox.net >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CAKFO%2Bx6VjKOBpUtujXh-SJ3wjfO3sfLz4ekMRukiBNfy2W-FMw%40mail.gmail.com >> . >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CAJwKpySoFnSWTz65ahf7QhObKBVOeYyDrGPXntaeNU25kqubXw%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CAJwKpySoFnSWTz65ahf7QhObKBVOeYyDrGPXntaeNU25kqubXw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group. 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