> That leaves the 2% benefit of cgroups, whose benefit boils down to, > when all the bullfeathers are removed, reaping zombies. Zombies were an > irritation to all of us, but we've lived with them for 15 years, and > their removal certainly doesn't justify a software V'ger.
there is a bit more to cgroups than that but there is no reason another init manager can't perform the same task without becoming The Blob. --Gravis On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Steve Litt <sl...@troubleshooters.com> wrote: > [Sorry Gravis, I could find no shorter way to say this] > > > On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 15:49:34 -0600 > "T.J. Duchene" <t.j.duch...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Wed, 2015-02-25 at 13:11 -0800, Go Linux wrote: > > > This excellent analysis of the systemd debacle was just posted over > > > on FDN. Should be required reading IMO. Enjoy! > > > > > > http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=120652&p=570371 > > > > > > golinux > > > > > I must respectfully disagree. I find the analysis to be very biased > > toward one side of the discussion, > > And the author tells us that. Now I'd like you to admit that you're > very biased toward the other side of the discussion. I'm proud to say > that I'm biased in the same direction as the author. So is the vast > majority of this mailing list, whose project was created in order to > choose one's init system without trashing the entire OS. > > > as well as creating their own > > definitions to fit their side. > > > > If something replaces init, it is by definition "an init system". > > So then, if I replace your car's radio by replacing the whole car, it > is by definition a "car radio"? > > > Whether it does more or less than the previous init is immaterial to > > that simple fact. > > I find no credible element of truth in the preceding sentence. But > anyway, disregarding the definition of "init system", the author is > dead bang right on: > > * Debian isn't other distros > * no one—has ever articulated a value proposition for systemd that > adequately addresses its implementation costs. > > About "Debian isn't other distros", he characterized the situation > exactly right, plus the fact that when Debian moved, all the Debian > descendents moved with it (except a couple that were born to exclude > systemd, like DNG). And, his assertion was even more right back in > September, when many of the brains behind DNG were helping out with > Debian. > > About value proposition vs cost: 90% of the value ennunciated by > systemd fans boil down to "it boots faster", because any benefit > achieved by socket activation and the like could be simulated by > strategically placed sleep statements in any other init. And keep in > mind that if boot speed and reliability are truly important to one, one > would be unlikely to start the number and type of services that would > be problematic to boot speed. AND, although I've gotten systemd to boot > in 4 seconds on a spinning platter, it took 30 seconds after that to > get into the Desktop Environment, because a lot of boot tasks including > networking happened in the desktop environment. AND, I got Epoch to > boot in 7 seconds, and runit to boot in 11 seconds, on the same > hardware, and they both took less time to get to the GUI. > > The other 8% have to do with making the GUI responsive to changes in > the system, and vice versa. Nice, but not essential, and not worth a 15 > major component monolith tied together with thick, not well documented > interfaces. Not only that, but there are plenty of other ways to get > that feature without gumming up the system by eliminating advantages of > interchangeable parts. > > That leaves the 2% benefit of cgroups, whose benefit boils down to, > when all the bullfeathers are removed, reaping zombies. Zombies were an > irritation to all of us, but we've lived with them for 15 years, and > their removal certainly doesn't justify a software V'ger. > > SteveT > > Steve Litt * http://www.troubleshooters.com/ > Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance > > _______________________________________________ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng >
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