On 05/05/2015 12:35 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote:
On Tue, May 05, 2015 at 11:49:34AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
Hi Noel,
Having any systemd-equipped Devuan packages means that I need to always
be on my guard to prevent systemd from sneaking in.
Could segregate the packages by putting them in another category, so
we'd have free, contrib, nonfree, systemd, ...
-- hendrik
It would probably help to have some ground rules on how Devuan handles
packages which provide systemd support. I know Devuan says "Nope!" when
it comes to anything that would introduce systemd/init system
dependencies, but does it ever get more elaborate than that? If it is
already in a wiki or README on git, I've missed it.
I can think of two ways these dependencies would come up in packages
that would need to be addressed:
* Configurable systemd support:
All Devuan packages should be configured NOT to depend on systemd,
whenever possible. This prevents init-system creep. This doesn't stop
one from using systemd and a package that has potential systemd support
(like xfce); however, said package on Devuan would not get any of the
additional benefits from systemd, such as... um, binary logging?
I would recommend against maintaining a separate, systemd-configured
repository; that would just be mainline Debian.
* Hard systemd requirements:
I believe this is where gnome3 and similar software falls; the project
has a hard runtime and/or buildtime dependency on systemd. The only way
to offer these packages on a non-systemd Devuan is to patch out the
systemd from the source. Fortunately, FreeBSD already has to do this,
right? Just raid their patches.
This can become a maintenance burden, which is why it is cool to have a
second option on how Devuan can handle these packages: *don't*.
Now, this handling of systemd-dependent packages still means that
systemd can be offered, but only as an init. (An init system only be
used to initialize a system? What madness is this!) And the only way
that systemd will ever make it onto your system is with an explicit
apt-get install since no other packages depend on it.
But IMHO, I think it would be wiser to offer uselessd instead of systemd:
http://uselessd.darknedgy.net/
Thataway, our (e)udev offering would be less muddled. Also, hilarity.
Besides, going with uselessd instead would make a systemd-ish Devuan
different than just Debian with poorer systemd integration. It would
kinda be like libav over ffmpeg; on this distro, systemd would just be
considered a "deprecated" version of uselessd (what with its text logs
and lack of gluttony against fellow software projects), even though both
projects (in both cases) are considered currently active.
~jaret
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