Hi Jaret,
> It would probably help to have some ground rules on how Devuan handles > packages which provide systemd support. I know Devuan says "Nope!" when it > comes to anything that would introduce systemd/init system dependencies, > but does it ever get more elaborate than that? If it is already in a wiki > or README on git, I've missed it. > > I can think of two ways these dependencies would come up in packages that > would need to be addressed: > > * Configurable systemd support: > > All Devuan packages should be configured NOT to depend on systemd, > whenever possible. This prevents init-system creep. This doesn't stop one > from using systemd and a package that has potential systemd support (like > xfce); however, said package on Devuan would not get any of the additional > benefits from systemd, such as... um, binary logging? > > I would recommend against maintaining a separate, systemd-configured > repository; that would just be mainline Debian. > > I think the plan is to address needless dependencies and lock-in in a more general way, via the constitution ( https://git.devuan.org/devuan/devuan-project/wikis/DevuanConstitution). Sections 2.2 and 9.10 are meant to alleviate this problem--not just for systemd, but for all software package suites that get included. > > * Hard systemd requirements: > > I believe this is where gnome3 and similar software falls; the project has > a hard runtime and/or buildtime dependency on systemd. The only way to > offer these packages on a non-systemd Devuan is to patch out the systemd > from the source. Fortunately, FreeBSD already has to do this, right? Just > raid their patches. > +1 > > This can become a maintenance burden, which is why it is cool to have a > second option on how Devuan can handle these packages: *don't*. > > > > Now, this handling of systemd-dependent packages still means that systemd > can be offered, but only as an init. (An init system only be used to > initialize a system? What madness is this!) And the only way that systemd > will ever make it onto your system is with an explicit apt-get install > since no other packages depend on it. > > But IMHO, I think it would be wiser to offer uselessd instead of systemd: > > http://uselessd.darknedgy.net/ You may be interested to know that uselessd is effectively dead in the water. The original uselessd author has since given up ( https://forums.darknedgy.net/viewtopic.php?id=4963). Someone else seems to have taken over, but I haven't heard anything about its subsequent progress (last repository commit is January 6: https://bitbucket.org/Tarnyko/uselessd). > > > Thataway, our (e)udev offering would be less muddled. Also, hilarity. > Already working on it :) > > Besides, going with uselessd instead would make a systemd-ish Devuan > different than just Debian with poorer systemd integration. It would kinda > be like libav over ffmpeg; on this distro, systemd would just be considered > a "deprecated" version of uselessd (what with its text logs and lack of > gluttony against fellow software projects), even though both projects (in > both cases) are considered currently active. > > I'm personally not opposed to someone taking up maintenance of uselessd and packaging it in a way that it conforms to Devuan's constitution :) The problem is, we'd need to find someone with the time, skill, and willpower to do it. That person is not me. I barely have enough time to work on vdev as it is :( -Jude
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