On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 10:45:19 +0200 Antony Stone <antony.st...@devuan.open.source.it> wrote:
> On Tuesday 13 June 2017 08:19:54 Jaromil wrote: > > but not GNOME! As with systemd, we are confident this won't hinder > > user's freedom of choice since one can always go use Ubuntu or > > Debian which are offering that. > > So, you're saying that if you want Gnome, you have to use systemd - > no way round that? Yes, with a caveat. The caveat is that some distros, such as Funtoo, have gone into Gnome and turned off, removed or stubbed calls to systemd. > > > as we managed to reach these goals now we'll move forward making our > > distro as universal as possible, hence supporting all DEs that can > > work without systemd. > > Is there a short answer (or can you point me at docs) to the question > "what makes a DE dependent on systemd?" When the DE uses parts of systemd's API or interface or whatever you want to call it, that causes the dependency. Such use is a choice by the DE programmers, as mentioned by Hendrik. One might wonder why the DE programmers would insist on an API from an early-boot process. Why should the DE know about the init or vice versa? The technical answer is that they shouldn't: No reasonable architectural design would favor such interdependency. This is not a technological issue: It's something else. Consider that the people encouraging Gnome<->systemd integration are Gnome, systemd, FreeDesktop.Org and Red Hat, those are the web pages you should look at. Here's my favorite explanation: http://asay.blogspot.ru/2006/10/interview-with-red-hat-cto-brian.html In the preceding, search down the page for the first occurrence of the word "complexity". I'd like to point out one more thing: There's a price for giving up systemd. If a specific look and feel, or a specific workflow, or a specific program is of higher priority than your computer having a sane software architecture with modularity, encapsulation, interchangeable parts, DIY-friendliness and Linux-obvious testpoints, then a systemd distro is probably your best choice. However, if a reasonable software architecture is of a higher priority, then the way to handle it is to "just say no" to software trying to force you into a specific init system (systemd). I'm pretty sure a Gnome or KDE user could become extremely efficient with LXDE or Xfce or Openbox + dmenu or fvwm or several others GOSFUIs (http://troubleshooters.com/linux/gosfui.htm). Humans are remarkably capable to work around their equipment (in this case the GOSFUI). Who hasn't regularly driven a bicycle that steered to the left and a car with not-so-good brakes? Switching between Gnome, KDE, LXDE and Xfce is remarkably easy for the person who adopts the belief that [s]he is in charge of the computer, and not vice versa. The Gnome-liking person not capable of adopting that belief belongs on a systemd-based distro, or better yet, Microsoft Windows, which is even more a path of least resistance. SteveT Steve Litt June 2017 featured book: The Key to Everyday Excellence http://www.troubleshooters.com/key _______________________________________________ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
