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On 04/12/2012 12:48 PM, Marc Lampo wrote:
> Hello Matthijs,
> 
> Regarding 1 - "... no relationship ... validating ... "
> 
> Suggestion (a phrase that does not hint at any possible
> "relationship") : This document holds no information that applies
> to the configuration of validating recursive name servers
> (validators).

Not only that, also the entities on the authoritative side don't have
influence on the entities on the recursive side.

> 
> Ok regarding 2 : three stages
> 
> OK regarding 3 : consequences for validation by parents
> 
> (as a matter of fact, we're going to check if we adapt our present
> validation ourselves)
> 
> For 4 and 5 there was already an OK.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Marc
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Matthijs Mekking
> [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 12 April 2012 10:53 AM To:
> Marc Lampo Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [DNSOP] I-D Action:
> draft-ietf-dnsop-rfc4641bis-10.txt
> 
> Hi Marc,
> 
> Coming back to your review items, I only think point 1 is not
> decided on yet. But I don't think this should stop progress.
> 
> You can find my responses in between lines.
> 
> Best regards, Matthijs
> 
> On 04/03/2012 11:11 AM, Marc Lampo wrote:
>> Hello again,
> 
>> About 1) If the document is for the authoritative side, why not
>> simply state so.  Instead of this confusing statement about
>> relationship between authoritative and validating NS's ?
> 
> I believe it does state so, without confusion: The first sentence
> says the document is aimed for people that are active at the
> authoritative side. The second sentence says that we consider no
> relationship with the people running the recursive side. You think
> the document can do without the latter sentence. I think it is a
> fair assumption.
> 
>> About 2) So it is "two" steps ?
> 
> I made it three stages. ;)
> 
>> About 3) I forgot the word "corresponding", my fault there. As
>> such the text is not wrong, please don't misunderstand me. But
>> the parent the only way, for a parent, to known/verify that DS
>> information is correct, is by querying for the DNSKEY RRset and
>> check if the corresponding ( ;-) DNSKEY is indeed present. If it
>> is not, there is no way the parent can distinguish between a
>> child zone administrator performing a double-DS rollover or
>> making an error ...
> 
> The text is not wrong, so we do not need action for 4641bis here.
> 
> My point of view on this topic:
> 
> As long as there is a valid DS with corresponding DNSKEY, adding
> another DS is no error. Maybe you are afraid what happens if the
> child zone operator removes the old DNSKEY and replaces it with the
> new (mismatched) one. Now you have encountered the error. But such
> things are not specific to Double-DS rollover, it can happen also
> without being in a rollover: I could remove my DNSKEYs from my
> zone, and it would go bogus. Same thing.
> 
> My point is, as long as the zone is able to be validated, there is
> no error made (in terms of DNSSEC).
> 
>> About 4) I can agree with the present text.
> 
> Ok.
> 
>> About 5) Me too, I think published signatures should never be
>> expired. Consequently, every key rollover will make signatures
>> disappear that are, as such, not expired yet. From that point of
>> view it makes little difference if signature validity period is a
>> couple of weeks or months or years.
> 
>> But if the zone administrator uses long validity time with the 
>> intention not to recalculate regularly, this implies that the ZSK
>>  cannot rollover either. (and this is practice - out there, right
>> now ! There is one TLD that has signatures valid till "the end of
>> the current year", and never did any key rollover since it
>> started with DNSSEC)
> 
>> To conclude : I can "just" agree with the present text.
> 
> Ok.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Kind regards,
> 
>> Marc Lampo EURid (for .eu)
> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: Matthijs Mekking 
>> [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 03 April 2012 10:36 AM To: 
>> Marc Lampo Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [DNSOP] I-D Action: 
>> draft-ietf-dnsop-rfc4641bis-10.txt
> 
>> Hi,
> 
>> On 04/02/2012 04:35 PM, Marc Lampo wrote:
>>> Hello to the list,
> 
>>> Nice piece of work !
> 
>>> Some remarks - nothing spectacular : 1) Last sentence in the
>>> first paragraph - Introduction (about : "no direct relation
>>> between ... and validating caching name servers.")
> 
>>> Isn't this sentence superfluous ?  I fail to see where a
>>> possible relation would indeed change something to these
>>> guidelines.
> 
>>> But by including the sentence about no relationship, one starts
>>> to wonder if something escapes me ...
> 
>> The document just tries to make it very clear that it is targeted
>> to the authoritative side of the DNS equation.
> 
> 
>>> 2) Double Signature ZSK rollover in 4.1.1.3 The last sentence
>>> states there are three steps. I think this is an error : There
>>> are three states, yes; but there are only two manipulations to
>>> perform. (to me it seems logical to interpret "step" as : 
>>> "operation to perform")
> 
>> Sure. More important is the fact that it is one step/stage
>> shorter than Pre-publish ZSK rollover.
> 
>>> 3) 4.1.3 Difference between ZSK and KSK rollovers 4.3.3
>>> Security Lameness
> 
>>> (actually, 4.1.3 introduces another way of KSK rollover. In
>>> that respect the title of the section is confusing !)
> 
>>> In 4.1.3 the text suggest to publish a DS record in the parent
>>> for which there is no DNSKEY record in the child zone.
> 
>> It suggests to publish a DS record for which there is no 
>> *corresponding* DNSKEY record in the child zone, next to an
>> existing chain of trust between parent and child. That is
>> different from "no DNSKEY record in the child zone".
> 
>>> In 4.3.3 the text suggest the parent could verify that the
>>> DNSKEY is actually published by the child.
> 
>>> --> 4.3.3 could explicitly state that, if a parent performs
>>> this kind of checking, then the "double DS method" of 4.1.3 is
>>> not possible.
> 
>> There is already a forward reference in section 4.1.3 to 4.3.3.
> 
>>> Furthermore : as registry (for .eu) we think that it is
>>> important to assist our registrars in setting DNSSEC up
>>> correctly. Consequently, we do verification when a registrar
>>> sends us DNSSEC information.  So we cannot distinguish between
>>> a DNS Operator that performs double DS KSK rollover and an
>>> operator making a mistake ...
> 
>> I think you might have a false negative there: If a DNS operator
>>  requests for a second DS to be published, it does not break the
>> chain of trust. Why classify it as a mistake? Double-DS rollover
>> is perfectly acceptable within the boundaries of DNSSEC.
> 
>>> 4) 4.3.4 DS Signature Validity Period The last paragraph holds
>>> a sentence that states : "Shortening the TTL reduces the damage
>>> of a successful replay attack."
> 
>>> I don't think this is correct (or relevant). For me, the
>>> chances for a replay attack increase with the signature
>>> validity period, not with the value of the TTL. The value of
>>> the paragraph lays, for me, in the propagation of updated DS
>>> RRsets (cfr the presentation on low TTL's, last week).
> 
>> You are right that the chances for a replay attack increase with
>> the validity period, but the damage depends on how long that data
>> will be in the cache. That depends on TTL.
> 
>>> 5) 4.4.2.1 Maximum value (for Signature Validation Period)
> 
>>> I think this paragraph should make a reference to Key Rollover
>>> ! Motivation : no matter how long a signature is valid, in
>>> order for it to be used, the corresponding Key must be
>>> available. (so : if the reason for long RRSIG validity is not
>>> to recalculate them, then ...)
> 
>>> I do admit that none of the Key Rollover scenario's take into
>>> account the signature validity time (but the TTL). And indeed,
>>> nothing prevents to generate a signature, valid for 1 year,
>>> with TTL of 1 day, and perform key rollover every three months
>>> : the still valid signature simply times out of the cache, to
>>> be replaced by a new one, valid for a new year.
> 
>> Hence, I don't think this paragraph should make a reference to
>> key rollover.
> 
>> Best regards, Matthijs
> 
> 
>>> Kind regards,
> 
>>> Marc Lampo EURid (for .eu)
> 
> 
>>> -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] 
>>> [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 30 March 2012 11:36 AM 
>>> To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Subject: [DNSOP]
>>> I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnsop-rfc4641bis-10.txt
> 
> 
>>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line
>>> Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the
>>> Domain Name System Operations Working Group of the IETF.
> 
>>> Title           : DNSSEC Operational Practices, Version 2 
>>> Author(s) : Olaf M. Kolkman W. (Matthijs) Mekking Filename :
>>> draft-ietf-dnsop-rfc4641bis-10.txt Pages           : 78 Date : 
>>> 2012-03-30
> 
>>> This document describes a set of practices for operating the
>>> DNS with security extensions (DNSSEC).  The target audience is
>>> zone administrators deploying DNSSEC.
> 
>>> The document discusses operational aspects of using keys and 
>>> signatures in the DNS.  It discusses issues of key generation,
>>> key storage, signature generation, key rollover, and related
>>> policies.
> 
>>> This document obsoletes RFC 4641 as it covers more operational
>>> ground and gives more up-to-date requirements with respect to
>>> key sizes and the DNSSEC operations.
> 
> 
>>> A URL for this Internet-Draft is: 
>>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-rfc4641bis-10.tx
>>>
>>> 
t
> 
>>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: 
>>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
> 
>>> This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: 
>>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-rfc4641bis-10.txt
>
>>> 
>>> 
> 
> 
>>> _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing
>>> list [email protected]
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop
> 
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