Hello Steve, Once again, thanks for the feedback.
About the Figure 12, that's OK! That suggestion was just some minor detail. Just checked out the CG7010 - LinkingData for a first review. Expect to return it by Friday (11Sep2020). The Calc Status Guide has been updated. Best regards, Felipe Viggiano Em dom., 6 de set. de 2020 às 12:23, Steve (GMail) < [email protected]> escreveu: > Hi Felipe, > > Many thanks for the comments. I have updated the chapter accordingly and > placed it back in the Draft folder, ready for 2nd review. > > I didn't update Figure 12 showing the Create Scenario dialog because I > don't think it really matters that the sample data shown in the dialog > includes a 2019 date. > > Regards, > > Steve > > > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "Felipe Viggiano" <[email protected]> > To: "Steve (GMail)" <[email protected]> > Cc: "Documentation Team" <[email protected]> > Sent: 05/09/2020 04:38:45 > Subject: Re: Re[4]: [libreoffice-documentation] Calc's Z-test tool > > >Hello everyone, > > > >Steve, > > > >Just uploaded a first review on the CG7009 - Data analysis in the > >feedback folder. I agree with your suggestions and inserted them into > >the guide. > > > >A few notes: > >- It's possible to set different values for Alpha in other tools like > >F-test, Paired t-test, and Chi-test (the dialog do not give this option > >to the user). This is also true for the Hypothesized Mean Difference in > >the Paired t-test. In this case, I suggested in the chapter to expand > >your explanation to all of those tools. > >- I have updated the Figure, but this was my first time doing this, > >could you give a double check on this? Fell free to delete it and > >replace if the result was not OK. > > > >About the chapter, the instructions were very clear, and I managed to > >reproduce every step, just a few minor suggestions. > > > >The Calc Guide Status has been updated. > > > >Best regards, > >Felipe Viggiano > > > >Em sex., 4 de set. de 2020 às 05:15, Steve (GMail) > ><[email protected]> escreveu: > >>Thanks Felipe. > >> > >>I think we must describe what the software currently does in the Calc > >>Guide - enhancements can be requested via Bugzilla but they may or may > >>not happen depending on volunteer effort. > >> > >>In summary, it appears that we need to update the description in > >>Chapter 9 (and maybe the Help) as follows: > >>Include a statement that normally, if the sample size is not large (n > >>< 30), the Paired t-test tool may be more appropriate. > >>After selecting the tool, the user should enter the variances of the > >>two datasets into the fields provided. In the example given the user > >>could enter the formula =VAR(A1:A13) into cell E5 and the formula > >>=VAR(B1:B13) into cell F5. The subsequent z and P values will be > >>updated automatically. > >>The user can also update the required Alpha (cell E2) and Hypothesised > >>Mean Difference (cell E3) values. Again, the subsequent z and P values > >>will be updated automatically. > >>State that the user should compare the selected Alpha level to the > >>appropriate calculated P value (depending whether a one-tailed or a > >>two-tailed test is required). If the calculated P value is smaller > >>than the Alpha level, then the user should reject the hypothesis > >>(which, in the example given, is that the means of the two data sets > >>are the same). > >>Update the figure accordingly. > >>Does that make sense? > >> > >>Regards, > >> > >>Steve > >> > >>------ Original Message ------ > >>From: "Felipe Viggiano" <[email protected]> > >>To: "Steve (GMail)" <[email protected]> > >>Cc: "Documentation Team" <[email protected]> > >>Sent: 04/09/2020 03:12:40 > >>Subject: Re: Re[2]: [libreoffice-documentation] Calc's Z-test tool > >> > >>>Hello everyone, > >>> > >>>About the matter, I'm currently reviewing the > >>>CG7009-DataAnalysis-SF-12Aug2020, and got to the Z-test tool part. > >>> > >>>After creating the results table, is possible to insert the variance > >>>in their respective cells, but I was looking to the Z-test wiki page > >>>referred in the chapter and it says this: > >>>"If the population variance is unknown (and therefore has to be > >>>estimated from the sample itself) and the sample size is not large (n > >>>< 30), the Student's t-test may be more appropriate." > >>> > >>>I just did a little research on google and found this website doing > >>>some explanation about Z-Test: > >>>https://www.solver.com/z-test-two-sample-means > >>>When running the example in Calc and manually inserting the variances > >>>in the cells of the Z-Test results, the output was identical to the > >>>example on the website. > >>> > >>>So I'm guessing that LO Calc should be able to calculate the variance > >>>from the given data, and this should be fixed in the software. > >>>Or, maybe we can put a note to the user to insert the variances after > >>>creating the table. > >>> > >>>Best regards, > >>>Felipe Viggiano > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>Em qua., 2 de set. de 2020 às 07:55, Steve (GMail) > >>><[email protected]> escreveu: > >>>>Thanks Ilmari and Mark, > >>>> > >>>>I'm happy to update the section in the 7.0 Calc Guide (which is > >>>>currently in preparation) but I'm still confused. Why does the > >>>>z-test > >>>>tool think that the variance of the given data sets is zero? As you > >>>>say > >>>>Ilmari, that is not a number that the user currently enters. > >>>> > >>>>Regards, > >>>> > >>>>Steve > >>>> > >>>>------ Original Message ------ > >>>>From: "Ilmari Lauhakangas" <[email protected]> > >>>>To: [email protected] > >>>>Sent: 02/09/2020 11:40:06 > >>>>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Calc's Z-test tool > >>>> > >>>> >Thanks! That was my gut feeling. > >>>> > > >>>> >So the immediate action would be to change the screenshots in Help > >>>>and Calc guide so the variance cells have non-zero values, also > >>>>adding a note to the instructions. > >>>> > > >>>> >A further question is, should we consider adding fields for > >>>>inputting variance values into the Z-test tool itself? Looking at > >>>>Microsoft Office docs, Excel has these. This would become an > >>>>enhancement request in Bugzilla. > >>>> > > >>>> >Ilmari > >>>> > > >>>> >Mark Morin kirjoitti 2.9.2020 klo 2.57: > >>>> >>Variance can't be zero for analysis of variance tests (t test, F > >>>>test, > >>>> >>etc). Statistical testing assumes that you have variance otherwise > >>>>you > >>>> >>really wouldn't need a test. > >>>> >> > >>>> >>On 9/1/2020 4:48 PM, Ilmari Lauhakangas wrote: > >>>> >>>I was looking at a bug report again: > >>>> >>>https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=132983 > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>>The reporter is scratching their head over the "division by zero" > >>>> >>>result for z. > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> From what I can see, the "Known variance" values can't both be > >>>>zero, > >>>> >>>if you want to avoid the #DIV/0! results. You have to give at > >>>>least > >>>> >>>one of them a positive non-zero value. > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>>Now, looking at Help: > >>>> >>> > https://help.libreoffice.org/7.1/en-US/text/scalc/01/statistics_test_z.html > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>>and the Calc guide chapter CG7009-DataAnalysis-SF-12Aug2020, we > >>>>see > >>>> >>>this same "division by zero" result and the reader is left > >>>>holding it. > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>>How to present this better in the docs? I have no experience on > >>>>the > >>>> >>>topic, but I hope we can find some statistician to shed light on > >>>>this! > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>>Ilmari > >>>> >>> > >>>> >> > >>>> > > >>>> >-- To unsubscribe e-mail to: > >>>>[email protected] > >>>><mailto:documentation%[email protected]> > >>>> >Problems? > >>>>https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > >>>> >Posting guidelines + more: > >>>>https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > >>>> >List archive: > >>>>https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ > >>>> >Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>-- > >>>>To unsubscribe e-mail to: > >>>>[email protected] > >>>><mailto:documentation%[email protected]> > >>>>Problems? > >>>>https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > >>>>Posting guidelines + more: > >>>>https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > >>>>List archive: > >>>>https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ > >>>>Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: [email protected] > Problems? > https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ > Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: [email protected] Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
