One of the differences is that the rods in compression are running in Nylon Bushes and yes at speed thus with an increase in flight induced load (therefore rod buckling loads) they deliver quite a stick in place load. The version in tension uses the fairlead rollers which when working properly deliver less friction and of course as the rods are in tension the friction loads are even less. However some reduction in the stick slip characteristic of the Nylon Bush/ Compression Rod style system can be overcome as I mentioned by the use of a Teflon or Silicone based spray dry lube. the springs appear to be there for the aileron differential. Experiment at your own discretion without any consideration of any of my afore mentioned comments in both mails. This is to say don't trust me. I may not know what I am talking about. Do it at your own risk. I am not responsible etc, etc. Cheers. Nige.
----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 5:30 PM Subject: Re: [DOG mailing list] Aileron Stiffness Hi Nigel, THanks for reproducing that info. I hadn't read it origionally but sure does explain issies re the aileron control. I have been helping Neville Swan with his Dimona and between us have done about 4 hrs or so. A few Mths ago, working again at Lara, I went down one weekend to Colac to see John Callaghan's Dimona which I had the opportunity to fly .... A most impressive little machine. (L2400 Limbach) . Good aileron control / stick load and surprising roll rate. THe L2400 gave great TO performance .... all round a delightful little ship.. I took some pics of the aileron belcrank because it was significantly different to the one I have here Neville's Dimona is quite different to fly .... the aileron control stiffens up in flight to a level which feels as if there is something "catching" in the aileron circuit Also both ailerons are "up" in flight .... one about 30mm and the other about 20mm (trailing edge) which I am sure is not helping matters The other issue related to take off.... with full forward stick on TO, it accelerated with the tailwheel firmly on the ground (I did expect the tail to lift a lot earlier). When flying speed was reached, it flew. I don't recall Johns Dimona doing that. If I recall the tail lifted normally. I guess though it is a characteristic which one can get used to. However getting back to the aileron issue. What is going thru my mind is that when the aileron rods are in compression they will want to bend and will be prevented doing so by the 5 bearings within the wings. Following on,that discssion, the Dimona I have here is an ex Thai one and as a result of a conversation with Roger Harris ( Gliding NZ STO) and concern about flutter, I took the bull by the horns and made an access hole adjacent to the first (of 5) bearings inside the wing. I found that all 3 bearings were seized. Their design was real dodgy .... no steel outer bearing then a nylon outer.... just a nylon outer. The balls had sort of embedded themselves in the nylon outer. So we purchased 10 new bearing sets and installed them .... quite a mission. THe new bearings from Diamond did have a steel outer and a nylon "tyre" An interesting thing was also that there was significant "play" between the bearing outers and the push rod. Presumably because the push rods are in Compression. So getting back to Nevilles Dimona, I wonder if seized bearings coupled with the pushrods in compression could be a problem by tightning up when in flight. Something to think about ?? Ian Williams --- On Mon, 25/10/10, Nigel Baker <[email protected]> wrote: From: Nigel Baker <[email protected]> Subject: [DOG mailing list] Aileron Stiffness To: "DOGS" <[email protected]> Date: Monday, 25, October, 2010, 1:50 AM Hi All. As I mentioned before there is stuff in the archive on the subject of the aileron systems. I am sending this again from a February round on this subject. Ian I can save you the trouble on checking if the aileron horns out in the wing are interchangeable. They are not. One system works with the push rods in tension and the other in compression in relation to normal flight load so no they can't be interchanged unless you want to reroute the push rods and turn the Aileron movement around in your head to go stick left for right roll. Cheers. Nige. ----- Original Message ----- From: Nigel Baker To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 5:53 PM Subject: Re: [DOG mailing list] Dimona 1984 Hi Lasse and others. Well I am confused by the mk1 mk2 stuff. I really don't know where that comes from. There is only the one manual that I know of last issue Nov 1985. About 9 years ago we asked Diamond Austria for info on the springs in the aileron circuit and whether or not they were needed or could the grade of spring be changed. After a short while they responded to the effect they didn't know there were springs used and couldn't imagine why and couldn't see a problem with removal. I am not so sure on the last bit. I have worked on several Dimona's and of note the S/N's 3512, 3535. 3538 and 3539 (ours) All these aircraft are ex the Thai Air Force and part of a group of 14 H36's the Thai's bought in a package deal with Wolf Hoffmann the designer and business owner at the time. There is one main difference between these numbers and a big difference in handling. S/N 3512 and 3535 had what I believe to be the original aileron drive circuit. In these aircraft the push rods worked in compression in normal flight mode and are guided by nylon bushes. It is best identified by looking through the clear inspection panel at the Aileron bell crank pivot point in the lower wing surface. When looking through the inspection panel you will see a bell crank fabricated from steel tube. This system also has centering springs attached to the aileron push rod drive assembly under the fuel tank in the fuselage. S/N 3538 and 3539 had what I believe is the later version. In this instance the push rods work in tension in normal flight mode and are guided by fairlead rollers. This is easily detected again by looking through the clear inspection panel and in this instance you will see a bell crank fabricated from steel sheet instead of tube. The resulting difference in systems is large. Firstly is the difference between compression and tension in the loaded push rods. In the case of the later system with the rollers the friction is less for one main reason. The push rods are pulled straight in normal flight load and the guides are not influencing them much (except for normal wing flex) so the friction is low and they are rollers (well when not seized). On the other hand the earlier version in compression results in the bushes holding the rods straight and this creates friction in the guides. Couple that with the use of bushes instead of rollers and there is your answer. This can be helped with the application of Silicon Spray Lube (works as a dry low friction lube which doesn't collect dust) to the push rods at the points where the bushes work but it is a pain as it requires removal of the push rods. Something that would need to be done yearly to get the best out of it. There is little friction on the ground of course but it is noticeable in cruise (reasonable flight loads) as you can detect the system sticking with small control inputs. Other than flying it inverted there is no way round this situation. Secondly the other difference is in the "differential Ratio" of the ailerons. The Service manual has a broad range of tolerance for aileron deflection which conveniently covers both systems. The older system produces an up value near the top tolerance of deflection for the aileron and down is close to the bottom of tolerance. This delivers a differential ratio of more than 2-1. The newer system produces an up value near the bottom of the tolerance and a down value of near the top of tolerance and this results in a differential of less than 2-1. So what difference does that make. Well as pointed out by some it means that normal flight loads can at certain points of deflection result in dynamic loads driving the ailerons into further deflection rather than less thus a lack of centering force and in fact the reverse. So the springs in the older system are there to supply a centering load and while they do that they are a negative at times. I am still confused by this mk1 and mk2 thing but can confirm that while I have heard of 1 aircraft built after 3539 but very close to it (3541 I think) the change to the Aileron Circuit happened around the 3540 mark somewhere depending on order schedules during the change over. Interestingly one comment was made by Diamond during enquires about the 2 systems when they didn't seem to be able to find records of the earlier system at the time was that Hoffmann Aircraft were not very good at record keeping. Hope this if of help. Cheers. Nige. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ian Mc Phee To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 11:09 PM Subject: Re: [DOG mailing list] Dimona 1984 Interesting about tail wheel mod from Michael - sure gives smoother ride. You mention the heads/valves lasting only 300hrs. I would recommend to all analysis of exhaust at FULL POWER with lamdameter etc. You may find it is running slightly lean on full power (actually plugs look OK) but gas analysis does not lie. More recently i have been using digital CHT and you can really see what is happening. I set them up so full power CHT rises to about 170degC then very slowly falls. If you bring throttle back just a bit in revs CHT will quickly rise to 180degC and beyond. This proves to me you are running rich on full power- also confirmed on EGT. To achieve this it may be necessary to carefully thin out the end 6mm to 8mm of each the needle in carby and thus achieve the low CHT on full power. (do not think of touching jet) Fuel is cheap when compared to repairing heads. Limbach Tech bull 53 makes mention of max on climb of 180degC (forget what max the manual says - that is stupid value) Also Tech bull 44 (11page edition) is well worth a read. Ian mcPhee 2010/1/27 Michael Grimwood <[email protected]> Hi John and Lasse I have owned a Mk1 H36 since 1988 (G-MRG in the UK, now VH-VRG in Australia). It originally came with an un-sprung
