Dave, I couldn't agree with you more. One of the biggest problems we have with the parked pages and auctions is the legal risk it could create for us.
We serve business and government clients almost exclusively; we're not interested in domain speculation or in trying to scrape some extra revenue from residual ad traffic. Our customers actually use their domain names. Occasionally, for whatever reason, customers do neglect to renew their registrations in time. It doesn't mean they no longer want their names. It's already been pointed out that customers will not be happy when they find out their domain name has been redirected to another server with someone else's content on it. Not only would we have to explain this new development to customers and deal with the technical ramifications (cached Tucows DNS entries, lost search engine listings, misdirected email), but there's a very real danger that the mess created by this change could be serious enough for a customer to come after us in court. It doesn't matter that we had no hand in this; we'd still have to defend against it. Most customers don't know who Tucows is and don't care one iota about the technical details of how domain names work. They see us as their vendor, and as far as they're concerned, we're responsible. After all, this is not what's supposed to happen with expired names. We would now have to bear this additional risk. It's all fine and well to say "it's the customer's own fault" for not renewing their name in time, that they've forfeited their rights, etc. It's naive to think this actually flies in the real world. Anyone who has ever had to serve a large and diverse customer base knows exactly how far this kind of attitude will get them. I also have to echo Dave's point about "general principle". Let's be very clear about what is being proposed here. Instead of deleting expired names and returning them to the available pool after a suitable grace period (currently 40 days on hold + 30 days in redemption), Tucows wants to take all non-renewed names and automatically put them up for auction. This means the domain names never enter the redemption period. More to the point, once Tucows starts doing this, every domain name registered by a Tucows reseller will *never again* be returned to the available pool! We will never have the opportunity to sell this domain name again, nor will any other reseller, or any other registrar for that matter. No one will ever be able be able to buy this domain name from any registrar at its regular retail price, because it will be held hostage in the auction system until someone buys it at some artificially inflated price. I think Dave's use of the term "hijacking" was very apt. Until ICANN officially changes the rules on handling of expired names for all registrars, no registrar has the right to deviate from established practice and contractual obligation. To do so removes any semblance of fairness from the domain registration system. The argument that it's justified because other registrars are doing it is, well, utter nonsense. One last thing. Someone else on this list recently wrote that every domain name that's dropped is quickly re-registered, even those names of low perceived value, so the auctioning of all expired names doesn't change the current reality re. unavailability of names. Actually, that may have been the case a few years ago. It's certainly doesn't seem true any longer, at least in my experience. The vast majority of domains dropped by our customers (by choice, or through lapsed accounts or forgotten renewals) are in fact still available months later. It seems the land-rush is over. All the less reason, I think, to tie up thousands of domain names in an auction system, but what do I know. I guess all those ad views are more important. -- Alex Bulan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Technical Operations Manager Korax Inc. On Fri, 11 Nov 2005, Dave Warren wrote: > First of all, pardon my language. I'll keep it to a minimum. > > In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > James M Woods <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> What kind of scenario do you envision needing to opt a domain name >> out of a possible auction? > > 1) General principle, for one. > > 2) My reading of the registrar agreements suggest that the auction > service may or may not be contractually permissible, especially if it > happens prior to the domain redemption process. The fact that > "everybody else is doing it" didn't hold any weight when I was a > teenager and everybody else was smoking or drinking or getting high, and > it doesn't hold any weight with me now. > > Argue if you want, but until Tucows legally indemnifies me, including a > contractual requirement for Tucows to pay all legal fees, plus my time > for any time and energy I spend should any legal troubles arise, I'm not > going to be satisfied. If I'm wrong in my reading of the agreements and > there is no potential lawsuit waiting, then it shouldn't be a risk for > Tucows, so lets see it happen, k? > > I would like to isolate myself from potential lawsuits from litigious > customers, since my vendor has painted what I consider a bulls eye on my > head, all without offering me anything substantial of value in return. > > The DNS hijacking thing is supposed to bring in an average of what, $50 > for every 1000 parked domains? If I gave a damn about $50 I'd be at > SRSPlus instead of OpenSRS, I'd be paying $2.50/domain/year less then > I'm paying now and I'd make that $50 back in a fraction of the time it > will ever take me to have 1000 domains expire. Yes I'm tiny, but size > doesn't matter, by the time I'm at 1000 domains and making that $50 I'd > have saved $2500. > > As for the auction thing, I've listed domains on eBay on behalf of > customers before, rarely have I recovered my costs -- For my typical > customer profile, I'm not expecting any resale of domains post-expiry. > Yay, another risk, without the accompanying reward. > > 3) So what's this risk I'm going on about? Well, lets say it's not in > violation of ICANN's agreements at all and I'm completely wrong. > Wouldn't be the first time. > > I've been threatened more then once by a trademark holder's team of > nimrods over domains which fell close to a legal trademarks. > > The most recent case was a gray area, but was potentially confusing to > customers. Nobody wanted a fight though. > > I was CC'd on all the paperwork, the cease and desist letters indicated > that I would be a target of the lawsuit both as a reseller and a host. > My lawyer indicated I hadn't done anything wrong, but I'd still have to > defend myself in court if I was sued. > > The trademark holder and the customer settled, under the terms of which > the owner of the domain would cease use of the trademarked name as a > business/trade name. > > The domain owner could continue to receive email for the duration of the > domain registration period, but the customer was explicitly forbidden > from sending mail, publishing the URL, or renewing, selling, giving away > or otherwise changing ownership of the domain. Any attempt to profit > from use of the domain was also explicitly forbidden. > > Both Tucows' hijacking of expired domains for advertising revenue and > the auction service would have placed both myself as well as my customer > in potential legal jeopardy as both myself and the customer could > potentially have benefited financially from these actions. > > > > Lets step back from specifics here for a minute though, and look at why > I selected OpenSRS in the first place, and why I'm still here. It's > sure not for the price. With GoDaddy selling *retail* at $7.95/year, > SRSPlus in the same ballpark in the wholesale world, and OpenSRS had the > gall to raise prices? -- I'm paying more *wholesale* then my users can > buy RETAIL. Luckily most of my users don't come to me for price or I'd > have been out of business a long time ago. > > All I really want out of Tucows here is the minimum contractually > required communications between *my* customers and *my* vendor, as > specified by ICANN's agreements and my registration agreement. > > I don't want any value-added crap thrown in, I don't want auctions, or > advertising. I don't want Tucows trying to sell some spam service to > me. I especially don't want Tucows marketing to my customers. Period. > > Let me repeat: I don't want Tucows involved in my relationship with *MY* > CUSTOMERS any more then is absolutely required by ICANN. > > Renewal notices, fine. WDRP reminders, I'll live with that (I'm not a > fan, but the good outweighs the negative in the grand scheme of things.) > Tucows' name when the domain is transferred in or out, again, I get > that. I wish ICANN recognized resellers, but they don't, so I'll > grumble, but that's not Tucows' fault. > > Beyond the contractually required minimum contact, all I want is for > Tucows to stay as far away from my customers as possible. For many > years you did that, and I happily paid more wholesale then the going > retail price, but ultimately everyone was happy. > _______________________________________________ > domains-gen mailing list > [email protected] > http://discuss.tucows.com/mailman/listinfo/domains-gen > _______________________________________________ domains-gen mailing list [email protected] http://discuss.tucows.com/mailman/listinfo/domains-gen
