Hi Jeremy, and all, I would like to just address one issue here, without taking up the individual principles at this time. I will come back to the individual principles later. Since its not clear what role ASD will have, (standards production, or implementation, overseer?) some re-phrasing at this early point might help focus whether the dream education standards program is a moral or ethical one. I feel by dropping the word "should" we can re-vision towards ethics and towards being clear that these are "our" standards. We can justify our standards however we chose, (experience, body of evidence, tradition, testimonial, moral, whatever) and then reference that this is what the program will need to comply without the moral signification attached. Thus in general, I would shift the emphasis from "should" to "If you do this, then this is what you get" atttitude. Various senarios loom for me that we are at this time leaving open: 1. ASD offers advice only to schools in the form of ¿expected? standards. 2. ASD offers a credential or certificate, [to a group/organization/school or individual] or some other kind of notice of compliance to standards. Soft version: If school agrees and signs some compliance document. Strong version: ASD has some kind of test or verification procedure. 3. ASD offers some other standardization or judicial functions and services. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I have no deep investment in my *particular* wording, but want to give the gist of the emphasis shift which I do feel *is* important. RE#1 as stated: >>>>>>>>>> (1) Any program training people to work with dreams should have a clearly stated ethical component. We recommend the "Statement of Ethics for Dream Work" adopted by the ASD as a foundation for such ethical components of dream work training......... <<<<<<<<<<<< How about (1) Programs training people to work with dreams will need to have a clearly stated ethical component for ASD standard compliance. ..." Rationale stated maybe later or somewhere else: Ethical disclosure offers thus and such benefits to the individual/group (which we can verify or not with research and experience and testimonials) and therefore complies with the ASD standards in the following ways.... RE # 2 Restated here as: <<<<<<<<<<<< (2) Any program training people to work with dreams should emphasize the multiple layers of meaning that are possible in every dream, and expose trainees to a variety of techniques and methods of exploration. Programs which offer to train people to work with dreams professionally, (i.e. responsibly, for-pay) must be free to emphasize one particular technique above others, but in order to achieve minimum standards of adequate professional training, these programs must also expose their trainees to a representative variety of different techniques and theoretical models. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< "Any program training people to work with dreams should emphasize..." I would recommend dropping the "should" and replacing it with something more like "expected" : "Training programs are expected to emphasize..." Rationale stated maybe later or somewhere else: Teaching people who work with dreams a polyseminal approach offers thus and such benefits to the individual/group (which we can verify or not with research and experience and testimonials) and therefore complies with the ASD standards in the following ways.... RE: #3 as stated: <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< (3) Any program training people to work with dreams should include a significant experience of adequately supervised, "hands-on", face-to-face dream work, leading and facilitating work with dreams, both with groups and individuals. (As electronic communications media become increasing important in our post-modern lives, this "hands-on" component may also be extended to include telephone and computer connected work with dreams, but traditional, face-to-face work must also be a significant element of the program. If the program does include training in working with dreams using electronic media, this work must also be supervised by instructors who themselves have adequate experience working with dreams using these media.) There should be written evaluations of the performance of trainees in these supervised situations. The criteria upon which these evaluations are based must be clearly stated, and applied equally. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< How about re-phrasing: to "will need to" (3) Any program training people to work with dreams will need to include a significant experience of adequately supervised, "hands-on", face-to-face dream work, leading and facilitating work with dreams, both with groups and individuals. Rationale stated maybe later or somewhere else: Providing "hands-on", face-to-face dream work, leading and facilitating work with dreams, both with groups and individuals offers thus and such benefits to the individual/group (which we can verify or not with research and experience and testimonials) and therefore complies with the ASD standards in the following ways.... RE #4 as stated: <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< (4) Any program training people to work with dreams should offer an overview of the history of dream work as a world-wide activity. Although programs may choose to emphasize one aspect of this tradition, such as the European, medical/psychiatric, tradition of dream exploration, they should also offer at least an over-view of the many other strands of aboriginal and non-European work with dreams. This should include, but not be limited to exposure to those traditions which grant primacy to the dream as a means of communion with the realms of spirit. >>>>>>>>>>>> re-phrase (4) Any program training people to work with dreams will need to offer an overview of the history of dream work as a world-wide activity. Although programs may choose to emphasize one aspect of this tradition, such as the European, medical/psychiatric, tradition of dream exploration, they need to offer at least an over-view of the many other strands of aboriginal and non-European work with dreams. This should include, but not be limited to exposure to those traditions which grant primacy to the dream as a means of communion with the realms of spirit. Rationale stated maybe later or somewhere else: Teaching people who work with dreams the history of dreamwork offers thus and such benefits to the individual/group (which we can verify or not with research and experience and testimonials) and therefore complies with the ASD standards in the following ways.... RE: #5 as stated: >>>>>>>>>>>> (5) At the outset, any program training people to work with dreams should have clearly stated goals and clearly stated means of evaluating whether or not those goals have been adequately achieved by a trainee. Evaluation of trainees regarding their performance and their achievement of training goals should be equally applied. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Restated. (5) At the outset, any program training people to work with dreams will need to have clearly stated goals and clearly stated means of evaluating whether or not those goals have been adequately achieved by a trainee. Evaluation of trainees regarding their performance and their achievement of training goals will need to be equally applied. Rationale stated maybe later or somewhere else: By having clearly stated goals and clearly stated means of evaluating whether or not those goals have been adequately achieved by a trainee offers thus and such benefits to the individual/group (which we can verify or not with research and experience and testimonials) and therefore complies with the ASD standards in the following ways.... RE#6 as stated: <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< (6) Although dream work training for specialists, (medical practitioners, therapists, social workers, etc.), will require further training beyond these five basic areas, even specialized education and training in working with dreams should conform to the principles stated here." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> re-framed: (6) Although dream work training for specialists, (medical practitioners, therapists, social workers, etc.), will require further training beyond these five basic areas, even specialized education and training in working with dreams will need to conform to the principles stated here for ASD standards compliance." Rationale stated maybe later or somewhere else: By recognizing these priniciples in both general and specialized dreamwork programs, a minimal standard for what we feel constitutes "adequate" dreamwork education can be established and offers thus and such benefits to the individual/group (which we can verify or not with research and experience and testimonials) and therefore complies with the ASD standards in the following ways.... This final re-vision is from an addition note and overlaps the numbering system of the first set of principles. Tue, 27 Jul 1999 "(3) Any program training people to work with dreams should have a fundamental component addressing the universal human process of unconscious "projection". This tranining component should include material relating to projection both as a major element in the creation of the manifest content of the dream itself, as well as a primary factor in the subsequent exploration and work with any dream or dream series." This might be re-framed as Any program training people to work with dreams will need to have a fundamental component addressing the universal human process of unconscious "projection". This tranining component will need to include material relating to projection both as a major element in the creation of the manifest content of the dream itself, as well as a primary factor in the subsequent exploration and work with any dream or dream series." Rationale stated maybe later or somewhere else: Programs which inlclude a tranining component on material relating to projection both as a major element in the creation of the manifest content of the dream itself, as well as a primary factor in the subsequent exploration and work with any dream or dream series, will benefit to the individual/group (which we can verify or not with research and experience and testimonials) and therefore complies with the ASD standards in the following ways.... ++ Richard [EMAIL PROTECTED] "I wake up in the morning with a dream in my eyes." allen ginsberg