On Wed, Mar 05, 2003 at 10:24:12AM -0800, Ian Romanick wrote: > José Fonseca wrote: > >On Tue, Mar 04, 2003 at 11:10:02PM -0800, Ian Romanick wrote: > > > >>Jens Owen wrote: > >> > >>>Concern #1: Acceptance into XFree86, etc. Creating dependencies on > >>>C++ compilers could be a big issue for some of the major projects > >>>that utilize our code. > >> > >>This is probably the biggest issue. I think if we agree to use a > >>reasonable subset of C++, we should have a good chance. This is > >>probably something we should bring up on [EMAIL PROTECTED] sooner rather > >>than later. > > > >I don't know, Ian... It will only start a flame where people would step > >in to say "how C++ is the holy grail" or "how C++ is evil"... How can it > >not be, if people in [EMAIL PROTECTED] have nothing else to base their > >opinions? A 3D driver is a complex beast - I myself can't yet picture > >how everything detail will fit in the final picture, most people here on > >DRI devel can't imagine either just by my descriptions, so how can the > >people of [EMAIL PROTECTED] understand the need to use C++ in a 3D driver? > > > >On the other hand, if we manage to write something which is actually > >used and yields significant advantages, how can they possibly dismiss > >it? > > And there's the problem. Do we ask permission or beg forgiveness? I > would sure hate to do a whole bunch of work, improve the drivers, and > have it all rejected. The people that control what gets into XFree86 > are on devel, not dri-devel (AFAIK).
I really hate to have to discuss this kind of hypothetical scenarios involving people actions, but: - if in the remote chance that the C++ framework sucks big time and doesn't deliver the expected goods: I don't expect anything else than blunt rejection from XFree86.org. Hopefully the OOP conceptualization made is useful enough to be worth to reimplement it in plain C, and a "C driver framework" can be made. (PS: I've more faith in winning the jackpot than this to happen ) - if in the chance that C++ framework delivers the expected goods, but it's rejected by XFree86.org: I don't care. I'll keep working on the framework and write drivers for it and make them available. Alternatives are a good thing. - in the more likely scenario that the C++ framework is everything it promises and is accepted by XFree86: great! Next step: world domination! - if I actually *win* the jackpot: I never get a job and spend the rest of my life writting open-source software...! (PS: Unfortunatly I don't play... so a life of dull mechanical engineer by day and crazy OSS developer by night awaits me ;-) My point with this is that, at least as far as 3D drivers are concerned, the objectivity of having a good work done is much more important that the subjectivity of acceptance. > >If you want, you can ping opinions on the [EMAIL PROTECTED], but if that > >turns into a flame on the C++ language I'll bail out immediately - it's > >pointless to argue such things and I'd rather invest that energy in > >coding. I'd really prefer waiting to have something to show. > > I agree 100%. At the same time, that can be a good litmus test. If it > instantly degrades into flames, then now is probably not the right time. > > All that said, I would *REALLY* like to see this happen. I would > especially like to see this happen quickly so that some of the new Hurries are a no-no, especially in OSS development. But as I said in IRC I hope in a month to have the Mesa wrapper stable. At that point things can go faster. (BTW, I have to start cutting on emails, as they're cutting my time to develop... :-/) > drivers (Savage & i740) can make use of it from the get-go. Having > drivers that ONLY exist using the "new" framework would probably help > our case. Esp. if we can show that the drivers took less time to > develop because of the C++ framework. :) Agreed. José Fonseca __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Etnus, makers of TotalView, The debugger for complex code. Debugging C/C++ programs can leave you feeling lost and disoriented. TotalView can help you find your way. Available on major UNIX and Linux platforms. Try it free. www.etnus.com _______________________________________________ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
