On May 26, 2008, at 5:20 PM, Randy wrote:

> Hello! I have a host of questions I hope you can answer for me or at
> least comment on.
>
> 1. Our D-Star full stack is on a 9200 ft mountain. It is a
> relatively high RF area.
>
All I can do is offer up what we've done at our test site, so far...

Commercial grade single-band antennas.  UHF is a 4-bay folded-dipole  
Sinclair, VHF is currently a borrowed antenna.

High quality hardline, no lossy stuff.  7/8" or better, depending on  
your cable run length.

Good filtering to deal with the non-selective front-ends.   UHF is a  
four cavity duplexer with an additional good quality pass cavity on  
the RX side, and room to integrate a second pre-selector can.  VHF is  
a very high quality four cavity duplexer with really high-Q cans (big).

No pre-amps.  The receivers are very sensitive without them.  No one  
(that I've seen) has done any measurements or studies on their noise- 
figure, so why drive the receiver down into the noise, without  
knowing?   Also the pre-amp at a high-RF site is just as likely to  
help as to hurt, by dragging in off-channel junk that will just  
overload the receiver.

No amplifiers.  Our final site is almost 5000' HAAT.  Our "test site"  
is about 2000' lower and blocked from most of the Denver Metro area,  
and places where big rocks are in the way... the thing still works.   
Impressively so, really.

Putting amps on it just turns it into an "alligator".  Balanced  
operation for HT users was our goal... if they can hear it, they can  
work it.  Mobiles obviously perform better.  If you're going for a  
balanced system for mobiles and unbalanced for HT's... add the amp.   
"Maximum coverage" is always a ham goal, but at the cost of HT  
users... they can hear the system but not reach it with 5W and a  
rubber-duck.  Why?

I think you might be surprised at how well the "bare" repeaters work  
with good filtering up front, especially at a high site.  I think the  
techniques many have used to add amplifiers and pre-amps are really  
only needed to either a) get the system to work better at low-level  
sites compared to our mountain sites out here in the West, and of  
course... b) to squeak every last bit of performance out of it.

Nothing wrong with either goal, but for your site, I would say:  Take  
it in stages.  Try it without all the add-ons and see how it does...  
then make careful, one-at-a-time, changes and carefully measure the  
performance difference.  (Really this is no different than any other  
repeater.)

You mentioned that other machines are 50W machines at the same  
sites... how many dB is 20W to 50W...?  Not much.

Mark N5RFX's work he did in his small but informative article for TAPR  
recently, is some of the best work on describing the receiver  
sensitivity that I've seen yet, and explains well why the digital  
systems seem to outperform the analog (even when the receivers he  
tested actually drop out 3dB sooner than analog would be copyable) but  
there's about a 17dB "slide" where analog sounds worse and worse, and  
digital is just fine.

--
Nate Duehr, WY0X
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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