On Fri, 22 May 2009 02:38:59 -0000, "fb38052286" <[email protected]> said: > I know that with a D-star repeater, the repeater cannot have the same > callsign as the owner's and one needs to get a frequency pair from the > repeater council. I read over the application from the repeater > council's site and it asks for the repeater's callsign. Should I get a > callsign for the repeater from the fcc first, then apply with the > repeater council?
The local frequency coordination body is mainly concerned with exactly that... frequency coordination. If you're putting up a repeater, you probably already have an idea if you're in a densely populated area where there are few of the limited number of repeater frequency pairs available on the band you desire to set up your repeater, or you know there's room... long before you think about becoming a repeater owner/operator. The order in which you do things isn't CRITICAL, but there are some show-stoppers. First what you need is a CLUB callsign. The FCC has a few rules about those -- individuals can't apply for them by themselves. It doesn't HAVE to be a vanity call, just a separate club call. As far as the council goes... what they always desire is COMMUNICATION from prospective users of the limited repeater spectrum. They also usually want the communication to be CONCISE. Tell them ALL of the information they request in their forms, remain polite, and all that. The question as to "what should I do first" is best answered if we have some kind of idea where you live. If you're in Downtown Los Angeles, and you're planning on a VHF repeater... we'll all laugh and tell you "good luck"... see ya later. If you're in farm country in a fly-over State... different story. > Also, should I have all the equipment gathered for the > repeater and it ready to go before doing this or can it be done ahead of > time. I know that the RC gives you a six month period to get the > repeater online, but I'm not sure if there's something similar with the > fcc. Our local group's club call was issued very rapidly, and then they wanted to pay for a vanity of W0CDS (W0-Colorado D-STAR) and that took a few more weeks. We decided to wait until the callsign was finalized prior to installing the system, since D-STAR repeaters have to be programmed with the callsign, and so does the Gateway server if you're going to provide Internet access at your repeater site and link to the rest of the D-STAR world with a Gateway. > If anyone has done this before, what kind of things will the fcc > ask? If anyone has a link to the application/information page for the > fcc to get a callsign (hopefully vanity) for an upcoming D-star repeater, > that would be very helpful for me. I tried looking but didn't find what > I was looking for. We've ALL done it before. :-) Look up Club callsign application requirements on the FCC site. Once you have the club call, then use the vanity process and pay the extra money to switch it. Reading your note... I'm far more concerned about something else... is this your first repeater? The reason I ask is there are a number of things you MUST understand to build a D-STAR repeater that works well... and the main one being... CHEAP ham-quality antennas, feedline, and filters (duplexers) just simply won't cut it... because you CAN'T test a D-STAR repeater easily for desense and other problems like you can HEAR when an analog repeater "goes bad". If you're not familiar with WELL-BUILT analog FM repeaters already, I can't more highly than YELLING in e-mail HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend that you find an Analog FM repeater-building ELMER to help with this process. The NUMBER ONE MISTAKE I see is hams who look at the list price of something called a "repeater" and think that's it... that's the price to start my own repeater. In D-STAR, the repeaters are only about HALF the cost of a properly built repeater system with *brand new* RF components. If you have access to COMMERCIAL QUALITY used antennas, hardline, connectors, lightning protection, power supplies, and duplexers from a source other than buying brand new, you can save a LOT of money -- but most folks I see buying a brand new repeater (D-STAR or otherwise) who've never built one before do NOT have those commercial industry connections, and MUST buy new. I don't know how many Analog FM systems I've run into over the years that are running on cheap Amateur grade antennas, poor quality lossy feedline, and the cheapest "mobile" duplexer they could find on eBay, who are SHOCKED when you hook up some test gear and tell them their repeater would have MILES more range if they didn't have 10dB or more of desense from the low-quality components they built the RF/antenna system with. That or they're blown up in the first lightning strike because they've never seen or researched how to properly protect a radio system that CAN'T be unplugged in a lightning storm, because it's on a mountain 20 miles away. So... with all that said... D-STAR is *harder* in some respects than your first analog FM repeater. You CAN'T measure it's performance properly... the first announced commercial service monitor (test gear) for D-STAR isn't due out until next month and it's going to cost more than $10K for those lucky enough to see one in their area of the country... so you can put up a D-STAR repeater, and find it DISAPPOINTS you greatly because it won't even cover where a similar Analog FM system does... if you're not putting the right RF subsystem products up with it. Here's some things I recommend to new repeater people: - Go to www.repeater-builder.com and read EVERYTHING. Take some of it with a grain of salt. - Meet (IN PERSON) some of the local area's top repeater people. Take an interest in THEIR systems and volunteer. Repeater maintenance and technical knowledge is at an all-time low... they'll teach. - Don't expect the local repeater council to elmer or teach unless they specifically offer such services. DO expect them to be CAUTIOUS about giving you a wide-area coverage frequency right off the bat if you have zero knowledge of repeater building and operation. BE READY and answer ALL of their HIGHLY DETAILED questions (if they're doing their jobs right) about your antenna system gain figures, power levels, exact coordinates of your transmitter, and KNOW all of their policies cold up-front before communicating with them. Think about how you can make their volunteer jobs easier when you communicate with them about a potential or ready-to-go-on-air system. - EXPECT the cost of the repeater to be DOUBLE the price of the repeater modules. BUY commercial-quality gear for your repeater site... it will pay off in spades when you only have to replace antennas every 10-15 years. "Diamond" and "Comet" are NOT commercial quality antenna builders. Learn names like "TX-RX", "Sinclair", "Decibel Products", "Andrews" and the things that the commercial RF guys "speak". - FIND AN ELMER... listen to the local Analog FM repeaters and pick the BEST PERFORMING ones, and meet the people that built and/or maintain them. THEY KNOW how to make repeaters work. Many of them might be interested in D-STAR but are too busy, too broke, or otherwise too preoccupied to build a system -- but with you "leading the charge" on getting the repeaters and generally "driving the bus", many of them would be happy to work "in the shadows" helping you get the system on-air... infrastructure guys are like that. Me included. I got "thrust" into a club president's role after doing work on analog repeaters for a while, but given my choice... I'd FAR rather just go to the sites and work on things with a tight team of technical helpers, than to mess with things like renewing the PO Box, paying the site rent bills, negotiating new contracts, getting insurance quotes... yadda yadda. The "front office" jobs and "back office" jobs all need to be covered. I have a GREAT team at my "analog club", but we're thin. Very thin. EVERYONE checks the box that says "Willing to volunteer for tech crew" but ask ANY of those folks if they even own a hard hat?... Remember we're talking $5 at Home Depot here... the answer is "Why would I need one?" Seriously... that's not a tech... that's a trainee, and you can eat up a LOT of time training just ONE new tech to do the work smart, safe, and efficiently. - Plan on this being a multi-year project. Seriously. It took me years to learn how to tweak an analog system for best performance, and frankly -- as a hobbyist I do NOT have time to do it all.. which leads to the next one... - BUILD A TEAM. You aren't going to be around 24/7 to talk to users, work on repeater problems, etc. Single-owner analog repeaters are a pain in the butt... a single-owner DIGITAL repeater can be even more-so. Get friends to help both with the real work of putting the system on-air, and also with the "support" roles, and if you're not independently wealthy -- with the money too. It's "shared" infrastructure... get "buy in" from others who also want to play on D-STAR. That's just some thoughts... you're diving into DEEP waters starting up your first repeater on D-STAR. YES... it can be done, but save yourself SOME of the learning curve and find some help... someone who's built a repeater in your area before. And get involved in places like the Repeater-Builder mailing lists, etc... ask good questions, and you'll do fine. Right now, you're at the stage where "you don't know what you don't know". That's okay, but don't worry about the callsigns or the FCC paperwork yet. Figure out what it's REALLY going to cost you to do it right. Ask around and meet up with some Repeater building elmers for coffee/beer, and start learning. You'll get further, faster, and the system will work BETTER when you get done. With D-STAR, it doesn't hurt to figure out who your local ham radio LINUX operating system experts are either. They can help you get the GATEWAY going if you're going to have Internet at the site, and you're planning on having a Gateway. Frankly, I don't think building a D-STAR repeater WITHOUT a Gateway is all that worthwhile. It's just a digital stand-alone repeater at that point, and most of the great features of the system aren't there if you can't add a Gateway. You'd be better off building an analog repeater for FAR less money out of surplus commercial gear, if there's no IP/Internet at your repeater site. And most of all... have FUN with it. Or it's not worth doing. "Them's just my thoughts"... Send us your callsign and name so we know who we're talking to, and where you live. That'll help us tailor our answers a lot better to your situation when it comes to frequency coordination and those "administrivia" questions. But shoot FIRST for a high-quality RF INFRASTRUCTURE station (that's what a repeater is, after all) and learn what you need to know to do THAT part of it... then start thinking/worrying about the coordination and the callsigns and things. You're not just going to "buy a box" at HRO and put it on the air at your house in 5 minutes and have it work right, if it's a repeater... Nate WY0X -- Nate Duehr [email protected]
