Yes, Jack has said what needed to be said. But, he's been saying it for years to no avail. There is power in numbers, particularly $ numbers. Perhaps all of us, as consumers of the radio manufacturers products, should demand, not ask, DEMAND, the manufacturers include in their technical spec sheets a list of all the existing ham radio software that is compatible with their newest product. Not just RS-232 compatible either, but USB compatible too! The list should include not only logging programs, but other categories capable of being interfaced with their radios such as RTTY, PSK, JT65, etc., etc., etc.
The manufacturers need to understand we are purchasing their products for our convenience, not theirs! There is a significant probability that we intend to use hardware and software products with their radios that are not exclusively of their brand or manufacture. This includes, but is not limited to, amps, mikes, tuners, keyers, speakers, antenna switches, etc. Wake up! Create a viable standard and live with it. No amount of tweaking and dancing around the maypole with a new concept is going to corner the market for you. There will always be competition so why make your customers suffer for no real reason? 73, Gary AL9A ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Leith" <[email protected]> To: "'Jack'" <[email protected]>; "'Robert Raines'" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: June 20, 2011 5:30 AM Subject: Re: [Dxbase] DXe New Version > Hear! Hear! Exactly what needed to be said. Hardly a rant. The truth. > > Thanks, Jack. > > 73 > > Al. VE1AL > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jack > Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 9:49 AM > To: Robert Raines; [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Dxbase] DXe New Version > > I want to address the comment regarding a "radio interface" module. Like > most posts on public forums, take it or leave it, but here goes: > > The assumption here seems to be that it should be within the logging > programs ability to provide a simple to use module that will forever more > let the user tweak or modify the core programming of the logging program > so > that whatever changes a radio manufacturer makes can readily be handled by > the logging program's user by simply making some changes. And of coures > as > evidenced here, when a logging program doesn't provide this capability, > the > charge seems to be that the programmer of the logging software is somehow > just lazy, or dumb, or doesn't care, or whatever other reason the original > poster might have in mind. > > Well, let's talk about this. When DXbase was first created, my partner > and > I sought some of the most brilliant minds in software rs232 communication > around. Together we developed the radios.ini concept and at the time it > was first introduced, it handled nearly every radio on the market. We > interacted with the tech groups of most major radio manufacturers and > gained their support that our approach should serve amateurs for a very > long time to come. Life was good. > > Then, without warning and with no rhyme or reason for the changes nearly > every radio manufacturer introduced new radios and yes, every one of them > contained changes that our INI file approach couldn't handle. We were > po'd > to say the least and the more we investigated, the more irritated we > became. > You see, the changes made by the manufacturers added absolutely no > additional functionality. None! The only thing they did was change > things. > We contacted each manufacturer ourselves. We had some of our customer's > in > Japan arrange personal meetings with the companies. Our desire was to > understand why did they do this. We basically got no good answer and > their > attitude was simply to blow us off. Afterall, they are the big corporate > giants and we were just the little old back room programmers. > > One of the manufacturers was so arrogant, that we decided to press further > through some rather high powered members of the ham community. We finally > got a response that said the rs232 interface provided on a radio is not > intended as a radio feature for the user. It is developed individually > for > each radio based on the engineer's design and is used solely for automatic > testing of the new radio. It is left in the radio since it does no harm > and if a user wants to use it for their own purposes, they can write > software themselves or they can contact the maker of their logging > software > to obtain the changes necessary. Standards? There are none! Concern for > the purchasers of radios.. Hell no! Manufacturers simply kick the problem > down the road to the logging software developers. The simple "technical" > fact is that it is impossible to predict what changes a radio manufacturer > might make in their interface such that you can develope a module within a > logging program to handle whatever comes down the road. One day you read > a > full character to interpret a command, then you have to just read a bit > out > of the character, but wait, now you have to read the bits in reverse > order, > but wait, now you have to read the previous command to know what special > handling the next command needs, this radio had no ability to identify > split status, this radio changes the filters whenever you set a new > frequency, this one doesn't. The list goes on and on and never stops. > Having been involved with this dilemna for well over 20 years, I can tell > you it is the most frustrating issue we ever faced. And it hasn't > changed. > > For anyone who thinks a programmer can predict what a radio will do in the > future, you're dreaming. Sure, there are some who have tried, and they > have had varying degrees of success. But whatever success they might have > had, it was pure luck, and personally I don't know of any software that > hasn't required some fundamental core programming change to deal with new > radios from time to time. > > The answer today is the same one that was needed when the first rs232 > radio > was sold. The makers of radios need to stop the BS, establish a standard, > and stick with that standard. It is absolute stupidity to continue this > madness and then expect logging programs to just through hoops every time > a > new radio comes about. But without an uproar from the buyers of radios, > this will never change. And we are doomed to have disgruntled hams > blaming > logging software because their new shiny radio isn't supported "yet". And > of course, those same people will be the ones blasting the reflectors > about > how "uncaring" the authors of their logging software are because they > didn't jump through hoops in a day or two to make their new shiny radio > work. > > Stupidity is when we continue to do the same things over and over, and > expect a different outcome. I challenge every single ham to stop buying > radios when the rs232 interface is suddenly changed for no good reason, > its > not backward compatible, and thus doesn't work with your logging software. > Who has the guts to place the blame squarely where it belongs? Who has > the > courage to write a letter to their favorite radio makers and tell them to > stop the madness? Who has the conviction to stop buying products from > manufacturers who don't care? > > OK, sorry for the rant. But this issue is personal because I and many > others have invested so much effort into this one and still nothing has > changed. > > Jack > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Raines" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 8:28 PM > Subject: Re: [Dxbase] DXe New Version > > > > Hi Carl, > > I do not hide my call sign - as explained before, I do not have an amateur > license. > > Way back in the DOS dark ages (yep, we have used it that long also), it > was > > discovered that DXBase did an excellent at tracking some transmissions > sent > > and received by small governement agencies and contractors. Jack made > customization easy for us though the database interface, other than > updating > the band information, initially it was used almost straight off the > diskette. A lot of the fields are not used, or > have a unique tuning in the DB. > > Our main concern is the RADIO INI files. Instead of fighting them each > time > a new commercial radio is installed, it would be nice to have a RADIO > customization interface in the new version. This is all we have been > asking > for. It would benefit all parties involved, not just amateurs. > > You guys saw the issue with the amateur TenTec OMNI VII and other rigs, > and > we have seen it with the government versions of new radios. > > I will go away for a while now and let the flames come my way for asking > for > something that I have asked for before. And by the way, my name is Robert > - > not Bob. > > > > > > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Dxbase] DXe New Version > Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 19:21:30 -0400 > > > > Hi Bob, > > Remember we all march to a different drummer. I for one am happy > > with DXbase2007. > It does all I need it to do. With that said I don't think it does any of > us > any good to put > pressure on Neal for a new version...NOW. First of all we should be glad > he > bought DXbase. > I think Jack was about to let it go by the wayside, which in that case > we'd > > all be out on a limb. > > It is my belief that the "buggy versions" of DXbase you speak of, came out > because of pressure > from guys like you for Neal to come out with "something". Just too much > pressure on the guy which > does not help any of us. > > I learned long ago not to jump to "upgrades", so I'm still at version .07 > . > > I think at this time you know what I'm going to say next...go to some > other > > logging program if you > don't like DXbase. For me, I'll stick around with DXbase since I have > since > > the first DOS version > came out around 1990. > > I for one will send Neal a private email, like this one to you, suggesting > Neal take his time, disregard > the pressure, and at his own pace, come out with a new great version of > DXbase. > > So Bob if you're a ham, as I don't see a call sign, best 73, > Carl - K8AV > > P.S. It's a shame you feel you must "hide" your call sign. I can only > guess > why. > It sure is funny you can't be found in the USA call book. > Maybe you work for a competing logging program ? > > > > > > > From: Robert Raines > Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 5:46 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Dxbase] DXe New Version > > > Well over a year ago everyone came down on me hard for asking Neal when we > would see some screen shots and a project draft of the new version of > DXBase. > > Now that over a year has passed, was I so aweful for asking? > > Every update attempt he has tried to do is full of bugs. > > Looks like someone needs to step up and ask what the currect users can > expect in the future and when. > > ______________________________________________________________ > Dxbase mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dxbase > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[email protected] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > ______________________________________________________________ > Dxbase mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dxbase > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[email protected] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Dxbase mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dxbase > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[email protected] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > ______________________________________________________________ > Dxbase mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dxbase > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[email protected] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Dxbase mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dxbase Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[email protected] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
