Doug is known to have a misbehaving Lookout Opressed client. I have a
Lookout Opress too, but it seems to behave, luckily.
Good questions btw. It's what I had in my head but didn't get into
words.
Ways to approach the the first of the three problems:
1) Boring, monotonous work: divide and conquer? If the problem can be
modularized, we can divide and conquer. Additionally it could maybe be
made fun by creating a simple web-page tracking system for updates
(statuses: open, in progrgess, complete), and the top 1, 3 or 5
contributors get some prize, like an online gift certificate or
something? Anything to get it done. Now I just need a backer or
co-backer... :p
Don't have any good ideas for the 2nd or 3rd.
Leif
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Butler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Suggestions
> Would switching over to the "standard" way of prototyping and method
definition be too difficult because:
>
> 1) It's just a lot of boring monotonous work
> or
> 2) The internals of Dynapi depend on doing prototyping and method
declaration this way
> or
> 3) some other reason (performance, etc.)
>
> If it's only because it's a lot of boring work then we could
potentially convert the codebase to the "standard way", as long as the
entire codebase doesn't need to be changed at once. I.E. can we change
it one class at a time and still have everything work ok.
>
> This would be better than making changes to the JSdoc tool to support
Dynapi's "way" of doing things. It would buy us two things: 1) Dynapi
would use the standard, and it's generally a good thing to be
standardized. 2) It would allow JSdoc to generate the javadoc without
us needing to modify it. It would probably be easier to modify Dynapi
than JSdoc anyway.
>
> I definetly want to build a Java & ant based javascript compressor and
javascript javadoc tool. I think these are definetly needed and would
be used by the community. So let's pursue doing that.
>
> On another note, instead of using CVS what about subversion?
Subversion has been released as a 1.0 and is much better than CVS,
especially when you want to do refactoring, etc.
>
> Oh, the last two messages from Doug appeared to have no content except
for the messages added by the mailing systems. Am I the only one that
got those that way, or did Doug send two empty messages?
>
> Later
> Rob
> > YEs! let's get a cvs update!
> > There have been a few fizes as of late.
> >
> > As for the prototyping, switching it over to the "standard" way
would now be
> > too difficult..
> > (i don't think) I could dedicate myself to that conversion, but
someone will
> > have to commit it
> > (i have been trying to get sourceforge to sent me my damned password
for 3
> > years now, maybe it's fixed now?)
> >
> > cheers
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Peter Romianowski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 10:12 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Suggestions
> >
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > just some short comments on JsDoc.
> > > I am using JsDoc for quite a while now and it works well for me.
But using
> > it for the (current)
> > > dynapi codebase brings a lot of problems because of the way dynapi
handles
> > to definition of classes.
> > > JsDoc only "accepts" classes (prototypes) written the "standard"
way:
> > >
> > > function MyClass() {
> > > }
> > >
> > > // Superclasses must be defined like this
> > > MyClass.prototype = new MySuperClass();
> > >
> > > // Methods like this:
> > > MyClass.prototype.myFunction=function() {
> > > }
> > >
> > > The "dynapi way" is this:
> > >
> > > function MyDynapiClass() {
> > > // Inheritance (I think JsDoc recognizes this too)
> > > this.MyDynapiSuperClass=MyDynapiSuperClass;
> > > this.MyDynapiSuperClass();
> > > }
> > >
> > > var p = dynapi.setPrototype ('MyDynapiClass',
'MyDynapiSuperClass');
> > >
> > > p.myFunction=function() {
> > > }
> > >
> > > The problem is that methods are declared using the "p-variable".
This way
> > JsDoc does not regocnize
> > > the class-methods. One would have to patch JsDoc or rewrite the
dynapi...
> > >
> > > Generelly I really like the idea of using JsDoc (I use it ;) This
leads to
> > much cleaner code and helps
> > > a lot understanding the code (because it includes comments then).
> > >
> > > >> Of course, you still have
> > > >> to comment your code at some level, which takes time, energy
and
> > > >> discipline. :p
> > >
> > > But it buys you a lot! I remember the pain I had understanding the
dynapi
> > completely. There are concepts
> > > (the "old" Stylemanager, SODA) that are really not so easy to
understand
> > in the first place. Missing documentation
> > > makes it even harder.
> > >
> > > As soon as the "new" DynAPI 3.0 is in CVS I really would like to
> > contribute some of my extension and help out
> > > in documentation. Perhaps(!) I will have a deeper look into JsDoc
to
> > extend it. The idea of a Java-based
> > > javascript-javadoc is great. If someone has the time starting such
a
> > project I would be a happy contributer
> > > to it! ;) Perhaps looking at Rhino (http://www.mozilla.org/rhino/)
or
> > another Java-based JS-Interpretor could
> > > help here...
> > >
> > > Just my 2 cents,
> > >
> > > Peter
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Rob Butler wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hey Leif,
> > > >
> > > > Nice to (virtually) meet you.
> > > >
> > > > I don't think that JSdoc will parse / JavaDoc anything but
Javascript at
> > this point. But similar tools could possibly be built for those
other
> > languages. Other people who use those languages all the time may
already
> > have done that. But if we at least get the Dynapi Javascript code
Javadoc'd
> > that would be a good thing, since it's the lion's share of the code,
and
> > what people are going to use the most.
> > > >
> > > > JSdoc uses a Perl templating framework, so if need be the
templates
> > could be modified to perform custom output / html generation. I
would say
> > to use them as they are initially and modify the templates later as
Dynapi
> > needs. The JSdoc tool seems to build a collection of object tree
structures
> > that contain all the information about the code. Then the
collection of
> > object tree structures are used in the templates to generate the
HTML. This
> > is great because after the parsing stage all the collected info is
available
> > for use in any way you want during the html generation stage in the
> > templates.
> > > >
> > > > If JSdoc were re-done in Java (again preferably as an ant task)
I would
> > suggest using either Velocity or Freemarker as a templating
framework to do
> > the same thing as the Perl templating framework. The "port" to Java
could
> > probably be done in a few parts & stages. One part would work on
getting a
> > Java version of the parsing system that builds the collection of
tree
> > structures. The other part would work on re-creating the Perl
templates in
> > Velocity or Freemarker. The conversion of the templates would
probably be
> > fairly easy... Just take the Perl templates and convert the syntax
for
> > substitution to use the velocity/freemarker syntax instead of the
Perl
> > syntax. Of course before doing that we would have to get permission
from
> > the JSdoc developers if we wanted to use a different license than
GPL. If
> > we did all this work to build an ant task to JavaDoc JavaScript it
would be
> > good if we did it under and Apache license, as then it could be
incorporated
> > into Ant itself. The
> > > ant group could potentially take over development / maintainance
at that
> > point too, since it could / would become part of Ant's core.
> > > >
> > > > Later
> > > > Rob
> > > >
> > > > PS. Paragraphs -- They're a good thing. :)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>Hmm, I'm only a half-peon contributor but I think I remember
hearing
> > > >>about or looking at the jsdoc project. Wouldn't that be cool,
to just
> > > >>be bumping along in your code, modifying things and dropping
some
> > > >>comments, and click a button and generate new docs that are up
to date?
> > > >>That would really combat the doc lag problem. Of course, you
still have
> > > >>to comment your code at some level, which takes time, energy and
> > > >>discipline. :p Sounds like a good idea though, and something I
could
> > > >>help with, if only involved moving text from the current docs
back into
> > > >>the source. But I might not know if the docs are /correct/.
That could
> > > >>be easily tackled as a separate problem though, first convert,
then
> > > >>correct. Ideally it'd be done in one go. But if it takes the
first
> > > >>step to motivate someone to do the second step, then it'd be
worth it in
> > > >>the end IMO. But, eh, what about custom formatting of the
webpages and
> > > >>such? Can the JSDoc treat comments as sort of a "database"
entry,
> > > >>allowing tokens and their values to be assigned to variables,
and then
> > > >>use templates to replace with the variables and values? And
what about
> > > >>the ASP (JScript and VBScript), Perl, PHP, (TCL, Scheme, Java,
etc.)
> > > >>sources for the server-side scripts like IOElement and SODA?
Can JSDoc
> > > >>support other comment structures, like Perl's '#'?
> > > >>
> > > >>Leif
> > > >>
> > > >>----- Original Message -----
> > > >>From: "Rob Butler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >>Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 9:27 PM
> > > >>Subject: [Dynapi-Dev] Suggestions
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>>Hello,
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Dynapi 3.0 looks real nice. I hope to use it in a variety of
open
> > > >>
> > > >>source &
> > > >>
> > > >>>commercial projects that I will be developing shortly. I hope
to
> > > >>
> > > >>contribute
> > > >>
> > > >>>back to the Dynapi project as well. On that front I have a few
> > > >>
> > > >>suggestions.
> > > >>
> > > >>>I really like having a Javascript compressor and it's great to
see you
> > > >>
> > > >>have
> > > >>
> > > >>>implemented one in Java. It would be great if the compressor
could be
> > > >>>extended to be an ant task as well as a stand alone executable.
> > > >>
> > > >>Instead of
> > > >>
> > > >>>just wrapping the existing Java class as an ant task, I would
> > > >>
> > > >>recommend
> > > >>
> > > >>>building the ant task to work in the "ant way" in that it
doesn't use
> > > >>
> > > >>a
> > > >>
> > > >>>separate config file, and accepts parameters & settings from
the ant
> > > >>
> > > >>script.
> > > >>
> > > >>>If I get some spare time between my other projects I could
potentially
> > > >>
> > > >>help
> > > >>
> > > >>>with this, but I just wanted to get the thought out there if
someone
> > > >>
> > > >>else
> > > >>
> > > >>>wanted to run with it.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Regarding the Javascript compressor, I think it's pretty neat
how you
> > > >>
> > > >>have
> > > >>
> > > >>>it doing runtime inclusion / exclusion of scripts in a single
file
> > > >>
> > > >>instead
> > > >>
> > > >>>of needing to pull in multiple smaller files. However, I think
the
> > > >>
> > > >>larger
> > > >>
> > > >>>file size is probably more of a negative than the separate
small
> > > >>
> > > >>files.
> > > >>
> > > >>>Browsers are pretty well optimized for pulling in lots of
little files
> > > >>>because everything on the web is a separate small file. I just
point
> > > >>
> > > >>this
> > > >>
> > > >>>out because if an ant based Javascript compressor were built I
think
> > > >>
> > > >>this
> > > >>
> > > >>>feature could be left out without too much of a negative impact
> > > >>
> > > >>compared to
> > > >>
> > > >>>the existing applications featureset.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Like most open source projects the documentation in Dynapi
seems to be
> > > >>>lagging the code's capabilities. I was considering developing
my own
> > > >>
> > > >>API
> > > >>
> > > >>>similar to Dynapi (thanks for saving me a ton of work) and knew
> > > >>>documentation would be difficult to keep up with, and being a
Java
> > > >>
> > > >>developer
> > > >>
> > > >>>I really like JavaDoc. So I looked for a Javascript Javadoc
tool and
> > > >>
> > > >>found
> > > >>
> > > >>>one: http://jsdoc.sourceforge.net/ This tool is written in
Perl
> > > >>
> > > >>(which is
> > > >>
> > > >>>ok, I would just prefer Java so it could be an Ant task without
> > > >>
> > > >>wrapping a
> > > >>
> > > >>>separate perl module). Perhaps Dynapi could adopt using this
tool to
> > > >>>document it's internals? I would also be interested in
developing a
> > > >>
> > > >>Java
> > > >>
> > > >>>based ant task to do Javascript Javadoc generation. Perhaps if
you
> > > >>
> > > >>all
> > > >>
> > > >>>think it is a good idea to use this tool, we could contact the
JSDoc
> > > >>>developers and see if they would be interested in developing a
Java
> > > >>
> > > >>port of
> > > >>
> > > >>>their tool as an ant task. Perhaps JSDoc & Dynapi could join
forces
> > > >>
> > > >>since
> > > >>
> > > >>>both groups are obviously interested in Javascript, and both
have
> > > >>
> > > >>developed
> > > >>
> > > >>>a Javascript "build time" tool that compliment each other?
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Just some thoughts. Looking forward to doing good things with
/
> > > >>>contributing to Dynapi.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Later
> > > >>>Rob
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>-------------------------------------------------------
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> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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