OK, open questions for me are: 1. Where to move: Platform or PDE (as I wrote I rather prefer Platform) 2. Shall we split org.eclipse.e4.tools.services into one bundle which remains in e4 and move the services, which are used by the tools to a new bundle (or maybe just into the tools bundle.
I really would like to get the opinion of committers of the target projects (PDE or Platform). I am willing to contribute here, but it does not make sense, if we do not know, whether you are willing to accept the tools then or which things you require to do it. Regards Jonas Am 14.02.2014 15:54, schrieb Wim Jongman: > > The question is, do we want to graduate the tools without full NLS and > without testcases and documentation. > > My 2 cents: I am happy with the current state of the model editor and > would not mind to graduate that. If we graduate "as is" then we get a > lot more feedback from the community. We could even build something in > the model editor to install the rest of the tooling (from incubation) > on request. > > About documentation: Lars has documented almost everything so there is > no direct need for "official" documentation this instance. However, in > time, I think we need to provide "official" documentation from > Eclipse. If Lars wants to donate some of his work to become official > (and hosted from eclipse.org <http://eclipse.org>) then this would be > awesome. I would not be surprised that the bylaws don't allow to > point to Lars' site for documentation. > > Also we would publish no API. > > In other words, I am +1 for graduating the model editor if we still > have time. > > Cheers, > > Wim > > > On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 2:59 PM, Jonas Helming > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > wrote: > > Hi, > > I never received an answer to this mail, does no one have a > opinion on this? Is anyone still interested in this topic? > > Best Regards > > Jonas > > > Am 20.01.2014 19:35, schrieb Jonas Helming: >> Hi, >> >> for me the relavant questions are: >> >> 1. Which bundles to we want to graduate and move? >> >> IMHO, the Application Model Editor and the e4 project wizards >> would be most important and already a huge improvement of the >> situation. Everybody who wants to create a native e4 applications >> needs this editor. >> Far behind, I would consider th CSS editor, but I think it would >> be acceptable to still install this one. >> >> 2. Where do we want to move it? >> >> Until now, most people mentioned, that the e4 tools should be >> moved to PDE. I personally would prefer to move them to the >> platform. The editor is really closely connected to the platform, >> it even accesses some internal API. The editor must also evolve >> in parallel to the Application Model. Finally I think the >> developers of the plattform are more connected to the tools. >> >> 3. What do we need to do to make this happen? >> >> I think we should identify the shortest path to a good result. >> >> - I don't think it is essential that the editor provides a public >> API. Extending it is a rather advanced use cases. If people >> extended a non-graduated tool in the past, I think they can live >> with internal API or SPI in the future. From an API stability >> point of view, this does not make a difference. >> - We need to check, which bundles must be moved. I am worried >> most about org.eclipse.e4.tools.services, it contains parts, >> which are not only used by the Application Model editor. So we >> might need to move some things around. >> - We need to define our goals for documentation and test coverage >> >> Finally I do not think this will slow down the evolution of the >> tools. If people want to contribute, they can still do. In turn, >> I think it makes it easier and more visible to create native e4 >> applications. >> >> What do you think? >> >> Cheers >> >> Jonas >> >> P.S.: Doug, thanks fro pushing this forward, I think an opinion >> from a user point of view is very valuable for this discussion >> >> >> >> Am 20.01.2014 18:18, schrieb Doug Schaefer: >>> These tools are equals to the plugin.xml and *.product editors. >>> Not sure what you are getting at below. I'm pretty sure users >>> who need these tools really don't get it. >>> >>> Doug. >>> >>> From: David M Williams <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> >>> Reply-To: E4 Project developer mailing list <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> >>> Date: Monday, January 20, 2014 at 10:30 AM >>> To: E4 Project developer mailing list <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> >>> Subject: Re: [e4-dev] e4 tools build moving to Luna? >>> >>> Sorry if this is obvious to others, but is this tool intended to >>> be a "delivery" of the "e4/sdk" product? In the sense it has >>> APIs and/or could be extended? Or it is intended for use only by >>> "Eclipse committers" in making Eclipse IDE? >>> >>> I ask since the "requirements" are quite a bit different for the >>> two. If simply a "releng tool" it could be provided similar to >>> how we deliver the "releng tools" from Platform (which provides >>> copyright tools, and a validator for MANIFEST and POM versions >>> (and some old cvs 'release' tools not used much these days). >>> While the description is needs improvement, I think it's pretty >>> clear it is not intended to provide API or be extended >>> (therefore "compatibility", etc. is not considered that >>> important ... we tell people to use the same version built with >>> their dev. environment. >>> >>> But, if meant to be extendable, and provide API, etc, then there >>> are higher criteria. >>> >>> I should add, it would be "hard" to "build with the SDK" because >>> it depends on some emf components (such as emf.edit.ui?) which >>> is not apart of the "base" EMF we get "early" from EMF. >>> >>> Hope these comments help inform the final decision. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: John Arthorne <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> >>> To: E4 Project developer mailing list <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>>, >>> Date: 01/19/2014 11:11 AM >>> Subject: Re: [e4-dev] e4 tools build moving to Luna? >>> Sent by: [email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> >>> If parts of the e4 tools graduated into PDE, then all active >>> contributors to those tools would be granted PDE commit rights >>> as part of the graduation/restructuring. We did the same thing >>> with commit rights on other parts of e4 that graduated into the >>> platform. So I don't think commit rights will be a problem at >>> all. It does of course require active committers to keep >>> maintaining it wherever it ends up. >>> >>> John >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Lars Vogel <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> >>> To: E4 Project developer mailing list <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>>, >>> Date: 01/18/2014 05:02 AM >>> Subject: Re: [e4-dev] e4 tools build moving to Luna? >>> Sent by: [email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> >>> I personally like that we can adjust the tooling as needed. PDE >>> seems very inactive at the moment. >>> >>> But test, better Javadoc and fixing the outstanding bugs is good >>> in general, no matter if the tools get officially released or >>> not, so no need to hold such activities of. >>> >>> Best regards, Lars >>> >>> Am 18.01.2014 09:40 schrieb "Wim Jongman" >>> <[email protected]_ <mailto:[email protected]>>: >>> There are things missing in the model editor and in the tooling >>> in general. Most notably unit tests, javadoc and user >>> documentation. We need to fix these before a release can be >>> considered. >>> >>> I am also happy to join a dedicated team that tackles this. So >>> that makes two. Who wants to join us? >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Wim >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> e4-dev mailing list_ >>> [email protected]_ <mailto:[email protected]>_ >>> __https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/e4-dev_ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> e4-dev mailing list >>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>_ >>> __https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/e4-dev_ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> e4-dev mailing list >>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/e4-dev >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> e4-dev mailing list >>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/e4-dev >> > > > _______________________________________________ > e4-dev mailing list > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/e4-dev > > > > > _______________________________________________ > e4-dev mailing list > [email protected] > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/e4-dev
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