Hi again!

Thanks Scott!

Sorry Eike! (Cowering in embarassment)

All of what you said sounds fine Scott... The extra use cases are great 
and should definitely be considered. 

As far as UI... I see your point, and think we should definitely focus on 
the framework/API side long before talking about UI (and it should most 
likely be a separate framework, since we definitely want to keep UI/non-UI 
code as separate as possible). But I don't want it to fall off the table 
as a talking point.

And we should look at ECF as a potential (especially as it is used in P2 
already and been through the wringer!). We just have to be careful to make 
sure we keep a compatibility layer in mind for any existing frameworks 
that eventually move this way (including DTP, which has a lot of 
commercial code at Sybase and IBM already written against it). 

--Fitz

Brian Fitzpatrick
Eclipse Data Tools Platform PMC Chair
Eclipse Data Tools Platform Connectivity Team Lead
Staff Software Engineer, Sybase, Inc.




Scott Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
09/23/2008 11:23 AM
Please respond to
E4 developer list <[email protected]>


To
E4 developer list <[email protected]>
cc
Eike Stepper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject
Re: [eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] next steps for the       E4/connection 
management discussion






Hi Brian/all,

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> <stuff deleted>
> 
> Though we didn't come to any solid conclusions, it seemed very evident 
> that there's definitely a need for some sort of cross-project 
> connection management framework in the E4 timeframe. 

Agreed.

>
> 
> Since the meeting, I was contacted by Eike Stepper from the CDO Model 
> Repository and Net4j Signalling Platform projects. She would like to 
> contribute to the conversation and at least keep informed of our 
> progress, so it's good to know that outside of the immediate E4 group 
> we have interested parties. Not sure if she'd like to demo their 
> current frameworks or not. (Eike, do you want to chime in here?)

FWIW, there's an enhancement request to create an ECF provider using 
Net4j:

https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=203406

...so that Net4j capabilities can/could be accessed via ECF-exposed 
common APIs (e.g. for connection management).

Just FYI...last I checked, Eike was male.  Hi Eike.

> 
> =High Level Goals=
>
> At a minimum, it would be helpful to come up with a common API for 
> connection management and persistence.
>
> Some simple use cases might include:
> 
> * Connecting to a unique connection object (database, system, etc.)
> * Disconnecting from a unique connection object
> * Retrieving the raw connection class from the managed connection object
> * Managing connection properties (such as connect/disconnect state and 
> any custom properties for the connection type)
> * Managing a list of connections, both connected and disconnected
> 
> More complicated use cases might include:
> 
> * Connection timeout
> * Backward compatibility

I don't have any criticism of use these use cases, although we might 
want to amend with:

* Representing different types of connections (i.e. for different 
protocols) and extensibly accessing protocol-specific capabilities
* Extensibly representing addresses in a common way across different 
addressing systems (e.g. ID/URI, etc)
* Authentication security with different protocols/authentication schemes
* Supporting other environments (e.g. Equinox-based servers)

>
> I think some level of UI consistency is still an important factor 
> also. Maybe if we don't all have the same UI components, we could all 
> agree on a consistent set of UI-based connection management tasks? Or 
> a consistent look and feel even if we're not all exactly the same?

Thoughts?

Although I agree that UI consistency is important, I hesitate to 
consider it part of a connection/connection management API.  Why? 
Because several of the things we seem to be looking for in a connection 
framework (connection management, transport independence) are logically 
separate from a user interface for creating/configuring connections 
(i.e. stuff needed so connection to external process can be 
established).  I say this because there are plenty of use cases (i.e. 
those Brian lists above) that involve connection management that 
can/could have no user interface at all for some applications (e.g. 
client apps that automatically connect to a number of IM accounts upon 
app startup or server-based apps that create connections for 
server/services, etc).

I do think that there can/should be work on UI for connection 
configuration and usage, and we (ECF) have done some small amount of 
work in this area.  We've created some common/reusable user interface 
components (e.g. connection dialogs and wizards), and we have some ui 
extension points (configurationWizards and connectWizards) that make it 
easier for new provider/protocol impls to introduce their own UI for 
connection creation/configuration.  And I'm in favor of the notion that 
EMF models could be created/used to construct config/connect UIs...we 
just haven't done that ourselves so far.

But I'm not in favor of pulling in UI dependencies specifically for a 
'connection framework'...at least partially because a connection 
framework (like ECF's IContainer APIs) can/is being used in entirely 
different environments...like Equinox-based server applications.  I know 
that this group is not focused on Equinox-based server applications, but 
I do think considering the use of connection frameworks in those 
environments will result in better separation of concerns at the 
bundle/api level for a connection framework.

Also, I would request that any effort to define a new connection API 
first take a look at and try out ECF's IContainer API for satisfying 
these use cases.  I think it can/could meet all the use cases I've seen 
so far on this list, and I think it would be a terrible shame to spend 
significant effort redoing much of what we've done (and is available as 
part of p2-based Equinox).  Also, if there are use cases that we've not 
addressed (so to speak :), then of course the API can/will be migrated 
forward as needed.

Scott


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