On Mon, 24 Apr 1995, Sue Adams wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Apr 1995, Faith Freewoman wrote:
>
> > It interests me to notice how many roadblocks our society as it's
> > presently constructed, especially IMHO in the suburbs, puts up roadblocks
> > to conscious, sustainable living. Every move *I* make, anyway, is a
> > tradeoff ...if I want to live somewhere we can afford on $25,000 a year
> for our
> > family, we either live in a place like this, or we move 'way out in the
> > stix, and then my daughter's education will go to pot.
>
> Well, Faith, I'm not sure whether your idea of "the stix" is a
> stereotype, or just based on some assumptions with which I disagree. Is
> it generally true that in the U.S. students living in rural areas are
> receiving substandard education? "Go to pot" in what sense? Are there
I live in Whatcom County Washington, where most of the Hispanics do
agriculture and the blacks are a nearly invisible minority. Gays and
lesbians get bashed and our local militia stood off the police when the
IRS tried to foreclose on Christian Patriot sympathizers' house (He
claimed he was exempt from taxes). White guys log, milk cows, mine
gravel, and build shopping malls.
I came here because it's beautiful, affordable, and has a very
progressive political element, which I saw because I was looking for it.
Kids here perform in the 57th percentile, which is not good enough for
me, for my very bright little girl. As for the validity of standardized
testing, I thinks it holds true in Whatcom County. These folks are NOT
thinking. As my daughter approaches school age, I'm getting very anxious.
Barbara
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed Apr 26 14:21:45 MDT 1995
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 13:21:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Bliss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Wood's still trying
To: Wood Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
On Mon, 24 Apr 1995, Wood Lee wrote:
> an elderly person to ensure that the seat belt was fastened. Was the
> attendant patronizing? Was the attendant trying to patronize? Did
> the elderly person feel patronized?
Whose problem was it if the seat belt was not fastened? To the extent the
airline could be held responsible, it was the airline's. Therefore,
patronizing or not, the attendant had the responsibility (lest the
airline be sued for injuries the elderly person sustained) to be sure the
person was buckled in. (An attorney could argue an experienced attendant
should know the elderly often have difficulty caring for themselves and
therefore should have taken better care; Indeed, a family member may have
instructeed the airline to do so)
We are not patronizing our children when, if something goes wrong, the
problem is ours. As they mature, more and more problems become theirs.
With regard to communication, whether we perceive such or not, women have
more to lose. Due to the structure of our institutions, the problem is
ours. Which is why we work on it.
But men lose too, by missing what we had to say.
What was the language you didn't understand?
> did. May be it was because of the noise level or the answers were
> in languages that I don't understand, but I still don't feel that
> I've `got it.'
Barbara Bliss
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed Apr 26 14:30:37 MDT 1995
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 13:30:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Bliss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Learning curve
To: Miriam Solomon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
On Mon, 24 Apr 1995, Miriam Solomon wrote:
> > this. Learning and adapting to each other's communication styles may
> > get in the way of efficiency at first, but things should improve after
> > the initial hump on the learning curve.
> >
> My problem with this is that if I will never take responsibility for men's
> learning. It drains me, and is bound to fail anyway. Noone learns anything
> unless they want to learn it, imho ...
Maybe we need a new feminist tome on men, women and communication styles
"The Learning Curve." We could start with a simple Bell curve, overlay
with flexibility in communications, and end up with projections about
suitability for inclusion in human society......
Just kidding - but sometimes it does get tiresome going over the same
ground -for others benefit
time after time after time after time......
Barbara Bliss
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed Apr 26 14:46:47 MDT 1995
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 13:47:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Bliss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: power communication
To: Michael Golden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
On Mon, 24 Apr 1995, Michael Golden wrote:
> ...My point is, I would like to see more
discussions
> on the 'class' nature of oppression as well.That is what has attracted me
> to the ecofem philosophy....a critique of the european-bourgeois
> dominance of the last 500 years or so. Having grown-up in a
> e ya
> Michael Golden
Ah, a topic. And how about that class oppression? Is it based in
control of production/resources? The oppression has a material realm as
well as political.
Why did the state of Washington so resist Indian fishing rights? It
certainly was not because tribes particularly depleted resources.
Is there a paranoid perception of scarcity among those "on top" that if
we all share someone won't share with them? (it would be tempting, but
nonproductive).
I'd also like to look at class issues more. As demographics change,
white males will be in a minority. And they (and we) had better all hope
the next ruling class has not learned the white man's ways too well.
Maybe stemming the tide is part of the motivation behind population
control (for people of color, especially in thrid world countries)
Stirring the pot
Barbara Bliss
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed Apr 26 14:56:43 MDT 1995
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 13:57:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Bliss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: power communication
To: Faith Freewoman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950425090434.12417H-100000@case>
On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, Faith Freewoman wrote:
> My question is this: how can we, as women, and as other marginalized
> groups such as people of color, gays and lesbians, and just plain wierdos
> (like me) express our rage at "the system," and at representatives of
> "the system" without decimating the ones standing closest to us ... who
> happen to be holding out their hands, either to offer or to request help?
White males made the difference in the last election. As our corporate
dominated economy exports its dollars, and jobs, to take advantage of
greater opportunities for profit, white men are getting treated the same
ways (to a much less degree) people of color and women have been treated
for years.
Use 'em, abuse 'em and move onto greener pastures/Rape, pillage, and plunder.
I think women (and people of color) have a chance to expose white men to
what will be a new paradigm for them, but is SOS to us. If they (white
guys) don't like getting treated this way, maybe we should make *not*
doing these things a matter of public policy.
Barbara Bliss
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed Apr 26 14:59:31 MDT 1995
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 14:00:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Bliss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: power communication
To: "Mary C. Simmons, Hydrologic Assistant, Albuquerque, NM "
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, Mary C. Simmons, Hydrologic Assistant, Albuquerque, NM wrote:
> economic theory that runs this place. This basis is called "scarcity"--which
> means that we have accepted that there are not enough resources to go around;
> therefore a certain %age of the population will experience lack and scarcity,
Is anybody familiar with other cultures enough to know if indigenous
peoples operate from a scarcity paradigm? I don't think so, but I don't
know for sure. Maybe other cultures would have some alternatives to our
paranoid perspective.
BB
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed Apr 26 15:14:08 MDT 1995
From: Jessica Gowen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 95 15:16:40 -0400
Subject: request
I am writing to make a request of any subscribers to this
group about ecofeminism in Latin America. I am a first semester
junior at Allegheny College in Meadville, PA, and I am beginning the
preliminary phases of work on my senior comprehensive project. This
is a long term project, due in December of 1996, but I am trying to
make some preliminary contacts that I will be able to keep up over
the next year and a half. I am looking for information about
specific non-governmental or grassroots organizations in Latin
America that are lead by women and working for issues that directly
affect women. While my comp topic is not limited to women's poltical
action in the area of envirionmental issues, one of the areas my
research thus far points to is women's activism for the environment.
If anyone has done fiedwork or significant research in this area, or
even if you just have some general suggestions or ideas, I'd
appreciate any direction you might give me. Please reply privately
with any suggestions or questions. If you'd like, I can give you a
more detailed explination of the focus of my work.
Many Thanks,
Jessica Gowen
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Allegheny College
Meadville, PA
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed Apr 26 19:26:47 MDT 1995
From: "Roberta Wollons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Organization: Indiana University Northwest
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 20:28:59 CST
Subject:
I'm new to ECOFEM, looking for suggestions for getting an overview of
eco-feminist concerns and positions. Where should I begin? Thanks in
advance.
Roberta Wollons
Phone: (219) 980-6975
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Apr 27 06:35:49 MDT 1995
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 08:35:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bertina Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Michael Golden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Class is a part of ecofem
I am a part of the lower class because I make just over the minimum
yearly income. But I begin to wonder whether the definitions of classes are
relative depending on the type of educational background as well as how much
annual income one has.
I think at times class does play a role in all aspects of life but
luckily email is one chance in life there is a way for people to
interact of all classes and backgrounds.
My 2 cents-
Bertina Miller
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, Michael Golden
wrote:
> Hi Carol, you wrote:
> >
> > michael - the reason that I have dificulty in discussing "class"
> > is because I don't have a clear sense of identity with a "class".
> > I do identify with "ecofem" are all ecofems middle class? lower
> > class? what kind of a "class" would you say ecofem is? Or are
> > you saying that we of ecofem are classless? - or not the same in
> > class? How can you see the relevance of class to ecofem?
> >
> -I think I'll let this question hang for other members of the list to
> comment on. I'll be happy to give my response later. I'm afraid I feel
> like I'm hogging the list and this is a question that can be addressed by
> many people, not just me. I'll be back:-) however. (Let me just make one
> remark, and that is I don't use 'lower class', thats a definition from the
> aristocracy....I'm taking about class based on economic relationships)>
>
> -michael
> --
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Apr 27 06:42:12 MDT 1995
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 08:42:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bertina Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Jackie Van Brocklin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Class is a part of ecofem
In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Actually I believe it does make a difference in this capitalist society
to have money, much more than I have, thats for sure! All important
issues that need to be brought out in this modern world need money to
keep the issue alive. Its a sad state of affairs but Im afraid a fact of
life.
Anyone out there for a good classless society? I dont think its feasible,
but maybe im too skeptical.
Bertina Miller
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, Jackie Van Brocklin wrote:
> Well, Michael - I will "jump in" here.... "Economic" class - as in
> LOW to VERY low - is unfortunately where MOST females lie in the
> class arena. We get "titles," may even get "hired" or "promoted"
> (God knows we get the WORK), but the pay? Don't even ask.....
>
> How does THIS relate to ecology? When I hear others say that
> "environmentalists are such an 'elite' group" - I want to LAUGH out
> loud! If elite means we have nothing more to do than "do the
> wilderness thing," or have so much money that we somehow have the
> TIME to do it -- that certainly does NOT apply to ME! We just happen
> to CARE a heckova lot - if we didn't, we wouldn't be constantly be
> putting our face in front of so many fists! Especially in these
> political times.....
>
> Even when some women either inherit or otherwise come "into" a lot
> of money, there will be closed doors. Of course, THEN, we could
> BUY the bunch, and FIRE them all! (heh,heh)
>
> Jackie
>
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Apr 27 06:46:26 MDT 1995
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 08:46:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bertina Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Toshihide Hamazaki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Wendy
In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, Toshihide Hamazaki wrote:
> I am strongly disagree with Wendy's comment on her white male friend.
> She said: " I can't help but think of the great opportunity he has had that may
> not have been available to women and minorities due to financial/social/cultura
> l reasons." If I understand her correctly, her point is that he made a wrong
> decision which led him to be discriminated despite the fact that he could have
> gotten other opportunities which is avilable to him.
> To me this sounds exactly the same statement as "She made a wrong choice for
> her job while she had many oppotunities which is available to her or which use
> her talent." I have thought the bottom line is that an individual should not
> be discriminated based on gender, race, sexual orientation, etc. Personally,
> I do no see that so called women's job (domestic, child care, etc.) as less
> valuable, lower, and less significant than so called male jobs. I respect both
> jobs. I praise females who choose to go to so called men's field as well as
> males who choose to go to so called women's field.
> I agree and sympathize that female has been oprresed and discriminated
> because of gender. I feel sorry for Mary who was judged not as an individual
> but as a class of gender and was discriminated. However, which does not give
> a justification to judge an individual of oprressor part as a class of oprresor
> . Wendy if you judge him and loose empathy because he is 'white male', then
> you are doing exatly what you have been fighting against.
> We have seen many cases of "minority discriminate other minorities while
> fighting agianst discrimination by dominant class." We have already discussed
> so much aginst power play by dominant class; however we have not come up with
> any alternatives. Power of dominance has been used to maintain a so called
> an established order. My question is how could we not use the power of dominac
> e while maintaining some sort of order?
>
> Toshihide
>
Interesting. Power and the ability to maintain order is the purpose of a
environmentally conscious society? Whose ideal of society are you
referring to?
Just curious
Bertina Miller
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Apr 27 07:42:13 MDT 1995
via Charon-4.0A-VROOM with IPX id 100.950427084605.448;
From: "Jackie Van Brocklin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Jackie Van Brocklin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Bertina Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 08:45:54 CST
Subject: RE: Class is a part of ecofem
Well, I was referring to "economic" class, but there really are all
kinds of "classes," aren't there? True, education is a separation
or "indication" of a class (pardon the pun) - but think about it -
just having access to the Internet raises us all up a notch or 2...
I could NEVER afford my own computer - at least the kind I'd want.
Frankly, IMHO, being able to join the ECOFEM group and other
Internet communities is a definite LUXURY!!!
It may not last (the "free" part), but let's all enjoy it while it's
here!
Jackie
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Apr 27 13:03:58 MDT 1995
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 12:05:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: "shana ([EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Salvage Logging Statements
Dear Ecofeminist List Members-
I am a student at the University of California Davis who is interning at
the White House Council on Environmental Quality. I have been on this
list for a short time and I think some of you may be able to help me. I
am helping the staff get together a briefing book on the salvage logging
issue for VP Gore. We are looking for some statements which convey a
perspective of the public on what is expected of the
President/Administration. I have seen commentary on the issue before on
this list, so I know you are out there!! I need
this right away, by 4pm ideally. You would be really helping me out !!!
Thanks so much!
************************************************
Shana Stanton
University of California, Davis
Undergraduate, Political Science & Women's Studies
Cross-Cultural Center, Program Assistant
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
**************************************************
