Hi! Someone e-mailed me personally and asked if I would consider continuing the personal conversations off the listserv because they would have to unsubscribe to the list because of the quantity of posts - I agree that we should continue this discussion offlist - so in the interest of fairplay - I will not post anything else (after this post) to the list about "the sacred and ecofeminism." If anyone wants to continue the discussion just e-mail me personally. I will try to sum up my opinions on the subject and reply in this post to other posts sent: Here is a summation: I am a Christian looking to green her faith. I think there is a definite connection between human religious perception of woman and the Earth as inferior and not worthy of as much honor and respect as man and that causes the devastation and dishonor to both! Both woman and the Earth are gifts of life and deserving of human honor and respect from both man and woman. You don't have to change God to a Goddess to know that or believe that or encourage that! We just need to be reminded of that! The reason I was interested in ecofeminism and joined the list in the first place was because I see that connection. What I feel needs to be done is a final stamp of sacredness to all living things. But that requires asking who/what makes it sacred and why? Of course, you all know my answer to that GOD because all life sprang forth from the same realm- OK you say Goddess - You have the free will to believe what you want - the only reason I asserted such a fervant righteous defense of Christianity was because ecofeminism isn't about blaming the patriarchial religion (or is it?) or it is about finding assimiliations to the abuse of women and the abuse in nature in all religions/all cultures, all beliefs? All of us making changes no matter what religious perspective we take to accomodate the understanding that no one has the right to treat a woman as inferior to a life of grace and no one has the right to abuse the Earth and living things. We can all take some blame for what has happens and what will happen - but we can also work together to make it better before it is too late. These discussions have been causing me undue stress because I feel like I am repeating myself a lot. I hope you all understand that I really believe you are free to choose - I never meant to slam anyone or their beliefs - I feel that life is about choices - I was just sharing my choice with you and how that affects my perception of the environment and woman's rights. Hope I didn't offend anyone too much. I know I definitely overpreached! Sorry - but I needed to get it out - Now you can go on believing what you want and get me out of your hair! Anyway . . Thanks for the exchange and helping me grow. Here are some final replies to previous posts : Regarding how I could defend past mistakes - I make it a point to never defend mistakes but to ask God to help me forgive. To forgive me when I make a mistake and to forgive my brothers and sisters when they make a mistake. We can only learn from the past - we can't change it! So might as well stamp it with forgiveness and strive for a better future! Re this by Chris: 1. The bible says Exodus 22:18 "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" I have abrogated it. Finally. I am freeing the witch from bondage forever. http://matu1.math.auckland.ac.nz/~king/Preprints/book/rebirth/rebirth.htm Who is Chris to abrogate anything from the Bible? I asked him this numerous times -how was he, Chris King, born to this world - how do we know if he is a true prophet or not? He could not reply. He said he is here to reveal the truth not to prove who he is. I disagree that he can do that without proving who he is! As far as I can see "He has no write to throw a gauntlet at the Lord." regarding the Charge of the Goddess: Who wrote this book that you took this out of? regarding this from the bible: Your bible says, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." This does not say thou shalt kill a witch - to not let live - I would imply to extinguish - Now this question- How do you know when you are summoning spirits that you are not summoning unholy spirits or spirits that are not with God? Can you say for sure that you are not? Maybe you really are messing with things you do not understand and God wanted that put in the bible to clear that up. Regarding me sounding overly righteous- I really believe - it just comes out that way. I really can't help that! regarding : We evolved (imperfectly, true) such qualities. Cooperation is as evolutionarily important as competition. Joe regarding this: It is a prison of the mind, and she is her own jailer. Joe I am a prisoner of love - I love God - he loves me - I am bound by that love. He blesses me - I do not know your Goddess and if she encourages you away from God or thwarts his son, Jesus, I do not desire to know her! As far as I can see you listen to her you are being led away from the light and away from true love which requires giving up some of your precious freedom! You are right we need to cooperate - We also need to undertand that tolerance does not mean embrace - it means accept - accept that others have different beliefs - not necessary embrace it as truth and apply it to your own life - but accept that they have the right to their own beliefs - I believe that moral directive has been imprinted on our evolution by religions and some of what we have evolved has come from learning about life - we can only love what we understand - now that we understand our world and the animals more we can learn to love them more. Reminds me of that saying "In the end we will only save what we love and we will only love what we understand." Regarding the bible just being a book - I disagree - It was spiritually inspired. It is not just a book and Jesus was not just a prophet _ my opinion. So therefore, dogma is not all that bad - gives us a written law - and Jesus can keep his title as King because it is the most kind, loving, compassionate worthy king I know! In my opinion, if the Goddess wants to marry she has to prove herself worthy of a king! Peace and Love, Angela >From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sat Nov 14 20:49:36 1998 Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 22:49:29 -0500 (EST) From: "Vera M. Britto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: democracy now <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ecofem-l <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Sayan Bhattacharyya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: WAR ALERT (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 20:00:53 -0500 From: International Action Center <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: WAR ALERT WAR ALTERT International Action Center 39 W. 14th St., #206 NYC 10011 212-633-6646; fax: 212-633-2889 www.iacenter.org Sandy Berger, the U.S. National Security Advisor, reported to the UN Security Council that the letter presented by Iraq is "unacceptable." Iraq's letter stated that UNSCOM investigators can return unconditionally. UN Secretary General Kofi Annan, Russia, China, and France accepted this letter. Clinton has canceled his trip to Asia. The U.S. remains poised for military action. CNN has reported that bombing may begin Saturday night. Call us at 212-633-6646 for more information as the situation evolves. Our web page contains information on day of/day after demonstrations, as well as demonstrations with set dates that are taking place around the country and around the world. If you have information about a demonstration not listed, please e-mail us the information. http://www.iacenter.org The NYC protest will occur within 24 hours at 5 pm in Times Square. Tuesday, November 17, 4:30 pm, Grand Central Station (42nd St. and Grand Central) Saturday, November 21_national and international day of protest, time and place TBA If a bombing occurs, meet in our office the next day at 10 am to prepare for the 5 pm demonstration. All out in protest! Stop the War Against Iraq! No Bombing of Iraq! End the Sanctions Now!
