At Sun, 14 Mar 1999 04:21:40 EST, you wrote:
>
>In a message dated 3/14/1999 1:39:02 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
><< Much of your opinions on this list are purportedly backed up by your
>knowedge or personal or secondhand experience of the topics under discussion
>(you seem to have "relatives ' in every country that comes up, not unlike Mr.
>Haney in the old sitcom "Green Acres"). >>
>
>Please don't be confused by African concepts of kinship and friendship (highly
>practiced by african americans, i.e. play cousins, mom's, neighborhood aunts,
>godfather's god mothers) , or by the facts of my having a non-american born
>parent, having relatives that work, travel, were born, live, study in many
>countries and who marry people of different countries. I also have traveled a
>bit, and have close relationships with many of the people that I meet - and
>work in international affairs, so of course I meet and become close with
>(kinship and friendship) with people.
>
>You also wrote " You undercut your self-proclaimed bases for the validity of
>your own opinions if you subsequently maintain that knowledge and experience
>count for nothing, and that one should not pursue them diligently before
>claiming to speak from some position of authority. "
>
>I have not undercut any of my own validity - and that validity is not granted
>by anyone on this list, least of all you mr. dees.
>
>I have not maintained that knowledge and experience count for nothing, however
>I have noted that the paradigms with which we were raised substantially alter
>our perception of life - at least until we challenge those fundamental
>perceptions - they can even allow us to avoid certain kinds of knowledge that
>don't fit with our preordained understand. We also experience things in
>different ways, based upon who were are - I experience the klan in a far
>different way that you, dees, experience the klan, because of who I am and who
>you are.
>
There you go with your little barbed insinuendoes again. My knowledge of the KKK and
neonazis has been gained for the purposes of opposing them more effectively, as they
underlie much of the radical antiabortion activity in the southern US, which I have
spent years opposing (and no, I have not attended any of their racist little meetings,
undercover or otherwise - there is a limit to what I can stomach - but I have
interviewed ex-klanspeople to better understand the peculiar brand of racist
christianity which held them in thrall [and my definition of christian is like my
definition of muslim, buddhist or any other faith - those who sincerely believe that
they are members, are, whether the rest of the faith's members are comfortable with it
or not - thus, the Taliban are islam, although an ignorant, sexist, oppressive and
repellent sect of it]). This is why I recommended for Donna Anderson to read "Blood
in the Face" by James Ridgeway, a book which names the names of the leade!
!
rs of the racist right in the US, and recounts their interconnections and shared
ideologies, for a historical perspective on such groups as she faces in Hayden Lake,
Idaho, a rationale which was okay for you, when you recommended another book by the
same author who named the names of those personally in control of much industrial
pollution and recounted their historical connections and common premises, but
apparently, according to you, not for me. I also made available a site from which to
access the "protocols of the elders of zion", not because of any antisemitic intent on
my part, but because reading such a document, which is a sick hoax written not by
jewish elders, but by nazi sympathizers, provides a window into the mentalities of
both those who could compose such propaganda and those who could embrace and believe
it. If you want to avoid snakebite while living on the land on which both you walk
and they crawl, and help others to do the same, it is wise, though it can !
!
be unpleasant, to make a study the habits of the snakes (and a little antivenom can
help, too).
>
>When I am talking about various african, islamic issues, I have more than just
>a passing knowledge with quite a bit of it, so I am comfortable speaking on it
>- based upon knowledge, experience, exposure and perspective.
>
>My personal exposure, including how I was raised, certainly aided me in
>understanding and learning. I also make a point to learn from the "sources".
>When I wanted to know more about afro-brasilians, I studied the culture and
>history, brought my knowledge of the language up to an advanced level, spoke
>to afro brasilians, contacted afro brasilian organizations, drew upon friends
>from brasil, relatives who traveled there, and eventually went there myself
>and lived with the family of a close friend. As a black person, I could
>understand in a personal sense when they talked about many issues about
>racism, culture, African identity - this also help me blend in quite well with
>afro-brasilians and get a very familial reception. As a pan african person, I
>was accepted into pan african circles, and by people of like mentalities, to
>work on mutual causes that are personal to us, and have experiences which
>provide a tactile understanding. I also was raised in a family that introduced
>me to perspectives and thinking that allowed me to take in such experiences in
>a particular way.
>
>With the family in Brasil, I talked to their friends, relatives, neighbors,
>traveled a bit in the country. I tutored ESL as a second language and ended up
>having several afro-brasilian students. I also worked in an african diaspora -
>afro-latino cultural center before I went to brasil. Read brasilian
>newspapers, novels, magazines, including the popular afro brasilian "raca". I
>have maintained those relationships, activities. I have sought out and brought
>afro-brasilians involved in UN issues, into the African Caucus and into
>African meetings, gatherings, events, in a variety of places. Also share with
>afro-brasilian groups information that I come across which I knew would be of
>mutual interest, and connect them to other afro-latin, african, pacific
>islander groups - other pan african activities.
>
>Last week attending a meeting I was surprised to find that one of the speakers
>was a woman who heads a palmares organization in brasil. I knew of the
>organization and its strong pan african focus.
>
>She spoke about the impact of globalization and economic meltdown on black
>women in brasilian. After her speech, I spoke to her and we found we had many
>friends in common from my work at the afro diaspora center, as part of the
>Afro-mundo group - over 200 afro latino organizations in the south, central
>and caribbean americas - and we exchanges cards, she asked me when I would
>next be in Brasil, told me to visit her when I am there, and hopeful come when
>they are meeting with the afro-brasilian senator Benedita da Silva who is a
>strong woman on afro-brasilian issues, forged many links with africans,
>african americans, So initiates the making of another goes another learning
>experience which will lead to many others.
>
>All of this is my funny little way of learning about something when it is
>really important for me.
>
>I like things to be wholistic - seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching
>and immersive . In my life because my personal, academic, professional
>interest are so interlinked, much of what I do enriches me in all three areas.
>I enjoy it tremendously and when I enjoy something like this, when I am so
>immersed in it, what I take it, what I learn is heightened so very much and it
>has a deeper meaning to me.
>
>So then, if I talk about the afro-brasilian experience, I feel quite
>comfortable on a foundation of a combination of this acquired knowledge,
>experiences and exposures.
>
>I don't find anything wrong with it, and it has worked well for me.
>
>Nicole
>
As any good phenomenologist acknowledges, doing is logically prior to knowing. Your
learning process is as follows (I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong); you acquaint
yourself with the language spoken by those whose experience you wish to understand,
and a basic background of their issues and culture, then go live among them, immerse
yourself and all your senses in their society, ask questions, and listen to the
answers. The method you describe is exactly the way to deepen one's comprehension of
such lived worlds, and is enjoyable when the cultures, and the people who inhabit
them, are a joy to be around. This method of understanding is not entirely open to
me; I can read about the groups I oppose and interview those who have left them, and
even with difficulty read the propaganda they write, but I lack the stomach for
personal immersion in a culture which so disgusts me.
>
>
Joe E. Dees
Poet, Pagan, Philosopher
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Access your e-mail anywhere, at any time.
Get your FREE BellSouth Web Mail account today!
http://webmail.bellsouth.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
