I wonder why everyone thinks that (wo) was tacked on to (men)? Far as I
am concerned, the "men" was derived from "women." After all, boys are
given birth by their mothers!
What if we look at the issue from this upside-down perspective. What
happens to all those hard feelings and difficult grammar?
Faith Freewoman
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sat Mar 11 15:47:55 MST 1995
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 14:52:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Faith Freewoman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Small things ...
In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I want to voice a BIG AAAAA-MEN! to ChrisMSoc's soft and beguiling
description of her reverent relationship to everyday contacts with the
natural world and other domestic beings. IMHO it requires personal
strength and tremendous focus to avoid "power-over" when using formal
rituals as your (almost) exclusive means of connecting to the natural
world. When you treat trees, snakes, springtime creeks, wildflowers and
the moon with the the same open-hearted and minute observance that (I
hope) you invent in your (other) loved ones, now THAT's healing and
whole-ing.
Looking, really looking at a cloud, or a sunset, or a robin hunting, or a
mouse making her nest, with your heart wide open is, as far as I'm
concerned, the most powerful thing any of us can do to make a difference
in how the Earth (and, by extension, women) is perceived, treated and
then expressed back to us.
Faith Freewoman
PS I would be interested in participating in a discussion group which is
more strongly spiritually oriented. Keep me posted, please, Joy and the
rest of you!
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sat Mar 11 18:09:32 MST 1995
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 20:09:37 -0500
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: The Wo-Man Thing
On Fri, Mar 10, 1995, Kylie wrote:
>a
>lot of women/womyn prefere to not use men or man and >instead use womon or
>womyn. There are a lot of other variations as well. It is >along the same
>lines as changing the title chairman to chair.
>I am not suggesting that womyn are not human but I am >suggesting that womyn
>are not the adjuct of men
-------------------------------------
My comments to follow are in no way meant as a personal attack, but I do not
now, nor have I ever felt that I am an adjunct of men. It is not language,
but social conditioning that makes us adopt this belief system. I am a firm
proponent of diversity in pronoun usage in both written and spoken forms, and
of making our (English) language more inclusive of gender (as well as other
ethnic) differentiations. I can't help thinking that the particular focus of
the writer quoted above seems to diffuse the issue. It is the not the word,
but how words are used to isolate, label and compartmentalize groups that, at
least in my way of thinking, causes the problems. Are hu-mans then hu-myns?
How do we make this differentiation? I honestly do understand the problems
posed by language, and that the creation of the word "womyn" tries to address
this problem. Still, I can't help feeling that we are getting too bogged
down in the _idea of language_ -- particularly if you look at other languages
where this issue is a non sequiter. This is really a cultural problem, don't
you think? I welcome dialogue.
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sat Mar 11 21:44:04 MST 1995
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 23:44:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Swarr Amanda Lock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: new list...and i want to talk about animals too!
To: Bertina Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
On Sat, 11 Mar 1995, Bertina Miller wrote:
> I hope it was not on my account that Joy wished to start a new list. I
> was irritated about the continual use of the word spiritual but I did not
> wish to make people not wish to post here.
later don roper wrote:
>I have only recently come to appreciate the fact that, since
>"spirituality" is not in the title "EcoFem," that some subscribers to
>EcoFem would find discussions of spirituality unattractive. When one
>subscribes to EcoFem or Ecol-Econ, it may be appropriate to expect
>largely secular discussions.
I say:
I think a new list is a fantastic idea. I certainly appreciate the need
to have a space to discuss alternative spiritualities, non-patriarchal
religions, etc. However, as a materialist, I have recently considered
unsubscribing from ecofem because of the discussions of spirituality,
religion, "mother earth," etc.
I am interested in talking about personal politics, and I realize that for
some people spirituality is part of this; however, I also wonder why we
(including me) never seem to discuss activism, distinctions between branches
of ecofeminism, and other more "academic" issues.
Also, to me issues of animal rights are central to an ecofeminist
ideology. This is probably not a popular sentiment, but I think that the
preoccupation with spirituality on this list is preventing us from discussing
important current political issues (such as the extreme right's stances and
actions on environmental and feminist legislation).
Me request to the group is: let's move past our spiritual differences
and similarities and begin to discuss practically how we can
stop the tide of current events relating to ecofeminism.
-amanda
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun Mar 12 02:34:01 MST 1995
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 01:32:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Dancing Hummingbird /aka Joy Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: responsibility
To: Carol Meeds WPB 407-433-2650 x 113 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
In-Reply-To: <A4ZVQXJEE3P*/R=WPB1/R=A1/U=MEEDS_C/@MHS>
Carol, I've been Trying, very hard, not to respond with anger to this
post. This is to date one of the most incendiary posts I have
seen on this list. Especially considering that I regard myself both as a
"Witch" and a "Pagan" (actually, in reality a "neo-Pagan", and those that
are Witches are Neo-Pagans, Neo-Pagan is an umbrella term). Oh, and BTW,
when refering to one's religious path, please CAPITALIZE it, just as you
would for Lutheran, Catholocism, Buddhism, "Pagansim" should be
capitalized, it is a *religion*.
On Fri, 10 Mar 1995, Carol Meeds WPB 407-433-2650 x 113 wrote:
> I think you are onto something here. I believe ritual could serve
> the purpose. Rituals which connect us with the environment.
> Unfortunately, it is just these types of rituals that are
> associated in the minds of some with paganism, witchcraft etc.
Carol, those rituals which connect us with the Earth are in all
essentiality, "Pagan." Rituals that Pagans and Wiccans (the religion
of witches) do are all about that. The paradigm of most religion is to
disassociate ourselves with Gaia, not connect us to her. Paganism and
witchcraft, or the Wicca is basically all about spiritually connecting
ourselves to the Earth. That is one of it's basic modus operandi, it's
purpose, it's reason for being.
Secondly, I must take offense at this. I.E., WHAT?????????????? What in
the world is wrong with associating ourselves with an Earth-centered,
Earth-healing religion? Do we have so little courage that we must always
worry what other people think of us if we hold an Earth healing ritual
in the public park? Must we proverbially continue to hide in the shadows
of the broom-closet? NO! We must come forward and fight for what we
believe in. And fight for our choice to believe in it. We aren't (and I
speak for many Pagans, since that is my community) saying that anyone else
has to believe in what we believe...if you don't like it you can't have
any, *but* your post implies that Paganism and witchcraft are something to
be avoided, something to be feared that it is evil or wrong, or to be ashamed
of. Or if nothing else that if people associate ecofeminists with this,
then we won't be taken seriously and we might as well hide in the shadows
again. Considering that we are the fastest growing religion in America I
can only assume from your post that you know nothing about our religions,
or you would never say such a hideous thing. you could have said the same
thing about Catholocism, ("oh, gee, if we use the Eucharist in our ritual,
then they might think we are !!!!CATHOLICS!!!!!!). Horrors and hobgoblins
and ghoulies, oh my! Do you have ANY idea how insulting this is?
Especially to all the men, women and children who were burned at the stake
during the Inquisition? Don't you realize what an insult and a
dishonoring of these people's lives, as well as all the lives of
Indigenous peoples around the world who have died at the hands of the
imperialists, the colonialists, the misionaries and capitalists because
they didn't understand that their "Pagan" practices (albeit, these people's
religion gave them an excuse to kill them for their property!) were
rituals done to *connect* people to the Earth, to heal the Earth to save
the Earth? Do you think that there is that much difference between the
white eco-feminist-eclecta-Pagan and the Australian aborigine? there are
some of course, but the essential connection, the essential spirituality
is the same. Are you trying to imply that the aboriginals shouldn't do
rituals to heal the Earth because it might not benefit the movement?
I honestly hope not, but by saying that by doing ritual, we might look too
"Pagan" or "witchcrafty", and that might hurt the movement is equal to
saying the above.
Carol this is a RELIGION. THIS IS A SPIRITUALITY. To ask us to bite out our
tongues, and our spirits, so that we don't look to "Pagany", or
"witchcrafty" is like asking a Catholic not to use the rosary. This is
asking us not to demonstrate our freedom of religion, which so far, is
still protected. And our religion, for most of us is the key to our
motivation for healing the Earth, for fighting for Her, for DYING for Her.
And I know quite a few people, in this life time, with EarthFirst! and
other organizations who have come close to that....and THEY KEEP ON
GOING, just like the bunny. Fearlessly, because they know what the
spirit of the Redwood grove is, they know what we are going to lose if we
keep raping our Mother.
Just because you think it might look "silly", (which is, I am hoping, the
only reason you would say such a thing) is as religiously biased as the
red-neck in South Dakota poking fun at the Medicine Man who performs the
sacred pipe ceremony in front of them. Would you tell a Native American
that s/he shouldn't perform their rituals to heal the Earth Mother because
the stupid rednecks might take offense?
Don't you realize that this was a religiously bigotted statement?
>
> How can we make it acceptable to have ritual with earth symbols in
> our lives? Judaism has the plate of salt, but a state employee
> lost her job for sprinkling sea salt to ward off evil spirits???
>
If that happened, she should sue the pants off of the state.
> Maybe we could start with verbal symbols when we talk to each
> other? In this vein, I greet you with the wind at your back, the
> fire of passion in my heart and my feet on the earth. :-)
>
Well, I would be more than willing to have that spirit, but you must
realize that what you said was, to me, an attempt to devalue all the work
that I have done, and what many Neo-Pagans I have known have done, much of
which has had a positive effect, just because I
am a Pagan, and use my rituals in all my work. And guess, what, Carol
THEY WORK, tremendously WELL.
A friend of mine, Darryl Cherney, was injured in a car bomb planted by the
Redwood timber industry and the FBI, who initially tried to blame the bomb
on him and the driver, Judi Bary. He survived it, her womb was exploded
from the inside out, because the bomb was under the passenger seat. and
she was driving. Judy survived as well, but the FBI tried to force
hospital officials to remove her from the hospital while she was in
intensive care, which would have killed her, fortunately the hospital said
"no way". The FBI was there (at the place where the bomb went off in the
car) before the cops or fire department were there, they, certainly *knew*
the bomb was there. Whether it was planted by the FBI or by MAXXAM's
Louisiana Pacific Lumber is uncertain, but what is pretty clear is that
they were in coercion SOMEWHERE. Examination of the phtographs reveal the
the bomb was under Judy Barry's seat, though the FBI continually tried to
say it was in the hatchback, even though there was no forensic (?)
evidencd to prove that,and with other things, this is a whole story of
coverup by the FBI.
Darryl is in our Church now, and I recently asked him why? "Becuase you
spiritually connect yourself to the work, you have a center, and you have
a place to go home to, community, love, and a place to work that is not
just from anger. Your rituals, your magick, your community create life
in the struggle, it is no longer a dead political realm, but a living
thing, just as Gaia is." (this is a paraphrase, not a quote). Darryl is
a man I love and cherish, his music is wonderful, I strongly suggest you
get a ta[e of his.
Joy Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Scion in the Church of All Worlds
"The Garrulous Grok Flok"
Thou Art Goddess!
