Yasemin Baytok makes a good point. Obviously, we must avoid extending the breadth of what is taught so far that any connection to the original discipline (Ecology) disappears.
There are, however, eclogical aspects of of environmental engineering and forest engineering that can be taught or metnioned. Afterall, would it not be a rather poor environmental engineer who knew nothing about ecology? Same these days with forestry. Also, I think we are dealing here with a difference int he way words are used in different languages. In Spanish and many other languages, what English speakers call a "Forester" is called a "Forest Engineer". They do the same thing essentially, but the introduction of the word "engineer" amy create subtle differences in disciplinary emphasis. Our main text on silviculture here in North America (Smith et al) is called "The practice of Silviculture: applied forest ecology". Cheers, Andy Quoting yasemin baytok <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Dear Ecologgers, > > With all do respect, I disagree with Andy's view that there is no separation > between environmental and ecological science. I'm frustrated cause, > unfortunately in my country, Turkey, Environmental science = environmental > engineering-agricultural engineering-forest engineering = Ecology! And they > seem liked to be so called "ecologist" and even believed they are. The > danger is they give lectures about ecology even they do not perform any > ecological research in their life. So, "When they are talking about > environmental science, generally they are not talking about aspects of > ecology" as he mentioned. With this defective situation you figure out the > students' perception of ecology as a science, not mentioning basic > principles of ecology. So here both sciences are misrepresented somehow. Of > course, we have rare 'silent' ecologists and emerging ones that they grown. > Still, ecology is minor science and few eminent universities hesitate to > give us a graduate degree on "the" ecology. > > Nowadays, as being attempting to teach current ecological issues and their > interconnectedness with the social sciences for non-biology majors, I start > with the definition and separation of these sciences as emphasizing > interactions with each others and the others sciences as well. > > Here two different definitions for "environmental science": > > The <http://www.wordwebonline.com/en/BRANCH> branch of > <http://www.wordwebonline.com/en/BIOLOGY> biology > <http://www.wordwebonline.com/en/CONCERNED> concerned with the > <http://www.wordwebonline.com/en/RELATIONS> relations between > <http://www.wordwebonline.com/en/ORGANISM> organisms and their > <http://www.wordwebonline.com/en/ENVIRONMENT> environment - syn: > <http://www.wordwebonline.com/en/ECOLOGY> ecology, > <http://www.wordwebonline.com/en/BIONOMICS> bionomics > > The science which studies the interaction between man and the environment, > emphasizing the links between different subjects related to this issue, > including ecology <http://www.allwords.com/?SearchType=3&Keyword=ecology> , > economics <http://www.allwords.com/?SearchType=3&Keyword=economics> , > geography <http://www.allwords.com/?SearchType=3&Keyword=geography> , > geology <http://www.allwords.com/?SearchType=3&Keyword=geology> , > meteorology <http://www.allwords.com/?SearchType=3&Keyword=meteorology> , > politics <http://www.allwords.com/?SearchType=3&Keyword=politics> and > sociology <http://www.allwords.com/?SearchType=3&Keyword=sociology> . > > After I saw the first definition, I found myself asking what the definition > Ecology then was!!! Second one seems quite fair to me. > > I know that the definition of environmental sciences is broad, overlapping > the natural sciences, the social sciences, and engineering. But I really do > separate out environmental and ecological science: > > Environmental science and Ecology are different fields of study, although > there is some overlap due to the multidisciplinary nature of environmental > science. Ecology is the study of the interrelations of living organisms and > their environment, whether at the population, community, or ecosystem level. > In contrast, environmental science is a broad area of study including > diverse areas such as atmospheric sciences, soil chemistry, > pollution-toxicology (water/air/soil quality), environmental > law/economics/politics and biological responses of systems to anthropogenic > influence. > > I sum up this subject with the comment of few scientists from The American > Institute of Biological Sciences, (AIBS) ' Comments on Draft Taxonomy of > Life Sciences, 2003: > > "Another issue we request the Committee reconsider is the association of > Ecology and Environmental Science. There is a common public misconception > that all ecological research is also environmental research. While there is > certainly a strong link between the two disciplines, they are unique. > Environmental science has historically been a discipline that includes > non-biological sciences and is focused on solving environmental problems. In > short, environmental science is largely an interdisciplinary applied > science. While ecology has also grown and benefited from increased > interdisciplinary collaboration, it is largely a basic science. While what > is learned from ecological research can and should inform environmental > science and policy, ecology is not by definition an environmental science as > environmental science is generally defined. We request the Committee > reconsider its linkage of Ecology with Environmental Science. Each > discipline is robust enough to warrant consideration as an independent > discipline with subfields." > > I'll appreciate your thoughts. > > Respectfully, > > Yasemin Erguner Baytok, PhD candidate > > >
