Yes, I read a lot of background info when I was younger and know that it makes
biological sense. The truth is that I don't manage anything. I eat some tofu,
lots of beans, and lots of fruits, vegetables, and root crops. I will challenge
any of the HCB editors to a game of one-on-one basketball to demonstrate how
healthy I am. :) Of course the biology of what you say makes sense, but it
practicality the fact that I don't get all the amino acids seems not to matter
much. Not sure why. I think other vegetarians would agree.

N.

Quoting malcolm McCallum <[email protected]>:

> here is a quick article that briefly discusses amino acid deficiencies
> in plants.  Of course, you must manage your diet very carefully, but
> lys, trp, and met are the key AA of importance here.
> http://www.plantphysiol.org/cgi/content/full/147/3/954
> 
> I tried to find further references, but simply do not have the time.
> 
> M
> 
> On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 11:56 AM, Lesley Campbell <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > While I'm more than happy to agree that the amount that ecologists travel
> > (relative to the average earth resident) is an outrageous disaster, and
> I'm
> > happy to agree that curbing travel has a far larger impact on one's
> > ecological footprint than curbing the consumption of animal products, the
> > statement that humans cannot survive on a plant based diet is clearly
> false.
> > Humans do not require any animal-derived amino acids (although they are
> > certainly tasty!). If it is not proof enough that there are entire
> cultures
> > (with reasonable life-spans) that eat strictly vegetarian diets, just
> survey
> > the academic literature on vegetarian (vs non-vegetarian) health.
> Vegetarian
> > diets do require humans to consume foods differently than non-vegetarians
> > but they are not impossible, nor unhealthy. Unfortunately, most people
> > switch to a vegan diet with little education in nutrition and end up
> rapidly
> > depleting essential nutrients that come from food the normal North
> American
> > doesn't use regularly.
> >
> > Here's an abstract of a the first comparative study of vegetarians and
> > non-vegetarians I pulled up on Web of science. It looks as if Buddhist
> > vegetarian nuns are just as healthy (if not more) as non-vegetarian
> > omnivores.
> >
> > Body composition and nutrient intake of Buddhist vegetarians (2009)
> > Lee, Yujin, Krawinkel, Michael.
> > ASIA PACIFIC JOURNAL OF CLINICAL NUTRITION &#160; &#160;18(2): 265-271
> > Abstract: We described the body composition and nutrient intake of
> Buddhist
> > vegetarians and compared the data with that of omnivores in South Korea.
> > Vegetarian subjects were 54 Buddhist nuns, who adhered to a vegetarian
> diet
> > in accordance with Buddhist teachings. We compared these finding with a
> > group of 31 omnivore Catholic nuns who shared a similar lifestyle but
> > different dietary pattern than those of the Buddhist nuns. All subjects
> > completed the estimated three-day dietary record. Body composition was
> > determined by a segmental multi-frequency-bioelectrical impedance analysis
> > method. No height difference between the dietary groups existed but the
> > vegetarians had a significantly higher body weight, fat free mass, body
> fat
> > and body mass index (BMI, kg/m(2)) than the omnivores. The median BMI of
> > both vegetarians and omnivores fell in the normal range (22.6 vs. 20.7
> > kg/m(2)). In vegetarians, body fat was inversely correlated with the
> > duration of vegetarianism (p for trend = 0.043). The long duration group
> of
> > the vegetarians had lower body fat than the short duration group (12.1 vs.
> > 15.0 kg, p = 0.032). The status of the nutrient intake of Korean Buddhist
> > vegetarians was comparable to that of omnivores, and the intake of some
> > nutrients in vegetarians was more favorable than in the omnivores.
> >
> > And the most highly cited, manipulative study I could find, revealed that
> a
> > vegetarian diet (including dairy products) has beneficial consequences for
> > blood pressure.
> >
> > A clinical trial of the effects of dietary patterns on blood pressure
> (1997)
> > Appel LJ, Moore TJ, Obarzanek E, Vollmer WM, Svetkey LP, Sacks FM, Bray
> GA,
> > Vogt TM, Cutler JA, Windhauser MM, Lin PH, Karanja N
> > NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL OF MEDICINE &#160;336 (16): 1117-1124
> >
> > Abstract: Background It is known that obesity, sodium intake, and alcohol
> > consumption influence blood pressure. In this clinical trial, Dietary
> > Approaches to Stop Hypertension, we assessed the effects of dietary
> patterns
> > on blood pressure.
> > Methods We enrolled 459 adults with systolic blood pressures of less than
> > 160 mm Hg and diastolic blood pressures of 80 to 95 mm Hg. For three
> weeks,
> > the subjects were fed a control diet that was low in fruits, vegetables,
> and
> > dairy products, with a fat content typical of the average diet in the
> United
> > States. They were then randomly assigned to receive for eight weeks the
> > control diet, a diet rich in fruits and vegetables, or a ''combination''
> > diet rich in fruits, vegetables, and low-fat dairy products and with
> reduced
> > saturated and total fat. Sodium intake and body weight were maintained at
> > constant levels.
> >
> > Results At base line, the mean (+/-SD) systolic and diastolic blood
> > pressures were 131.3+/-10.8 mm Hg and 84.+/-4.7 mm Hg, respectively. The
> > combination diet reduced systolic and diastolic blood pressure by 5.5 and
> > 3.0 mm Hg more, respectively, than the control diet (P<0.001 for each);
> the
> > fruits-and-vegetables diet reduced systolic blood pressure by 2.8 mm Hg
> more
> > (P<0.001) and diastolic blood pressure by 1.1 mm Hg more (P=0.07) than the
> > control diet. Among the 133 subjects with hypertension (systolic pressure,
> > greater than or equal to 140 mm Hg; diastolic pressure, greater than or
> > equal to 90 mm Hg; or both), the combination diet reduced systolic and
> > diastolic blood pressure by 11.4 and 5.5 mm Hg more, respectively, than
> the
> > control diet (P<0.001 for each); among the 326 subjects without
> > hypertension, the corresponding reductions were 3.5 mm Hg (P<0.001) and
> 2.1
> > mm Hg (P=0.003).
> >
> > Conclusions A diet rich in fruits, vegetables, and low-fat dairy foods and
> > with reduced saturated and total fat can substantially lower blood
> pressure.
> > This diet offers an additional nutritional approach to preventing and
> > treating hypertension. (C) 1997, Massachusetts Medical Society.
> >
> >
> > On Sep 8, 2009, at 10:50 PM, malcolm McCallum wrote:
> >
> >> I tend to believe that any absolute answer that is declared an end all
> >> answer
> >> is probably not the answer. &#21867;or example, I'm not convinced that
everyone
> >> jumping into a vegetarian diet is going to suddenly or even slowly
> >> save the world.
> >> Especially, considering that some of these stats are based on unrealistic
> >> estimates.
> >>
> >> For example, suggesting that x acres of corn would feed x number of cows
> >> and
> >> that would feed x number of people whereas the x acres of corn would feed
> >> way
> >> more people is flawed. &#13774;umans cannot survive on a corn diet.
&#21874;ven if
> >> we expanded
> >> this to grains and soybeans, humans cannot survive on a corn-soybean
> diet.
> >> Why? &#27626;ecause vegetables in general are low in two or three
essential
> >> amino acids
> >> that humans must get in their diet. &#28659;hose amino acids are produced
by
> >> animals
> >> and so you must ultimately get them from animals or artificially
> >> produced products.
> >>
> >> Furthermore, even if the plant has x amount of lysine for example, the
> >> amount in
> >> the plant is not completely biologically available to the human
> >> because we simply
> >> do not have the enzymes for breaking these products down.
> >>
> >> Also, outside of feedlots where high-concentrate diets are fed, if you
> >> look at
> >> grass fed cattle/sheep/goats you are going to find that these animals
> >> are raised
> >> on lands that are not very suitable for food crop production AND that
> much
> >> of
> >> what they are fed is not human food but rather grasses. &#13774;owever,
most
> >> beef is fed out in feedlots and relatively little is raised on grass.
> >> Sheep and
> >> goats, however, are virtually entirely fed using areas that would not be
> >> used
> >> for any kind of crop farming.
> >>
> >> Now, growing row crops such as corn and soybeans is not a one-to-one
> >> conversion
> >> to growing horticultural food crops. &#13774;orticultural food crops
require
> >> more intensive
> >> care in order for them to have shelf life and for other technical
> >> reasons. &#31949;he seeds
> >> are planted further apart, the rows further apart and the necessary
> >> irrigation and
> >> pest control much more extreme than row crops. &#22050;ther crops such as
> fruits
> >> waste tons of land in comparison. &#21873;t takes a good 5 years before a
fruit
> >> tree
> >> reaches maturity (semi dwarf) and closer to two years for a dwarf.
> &#23405;gain,
> >> high use of pesticides is the norm. &#23405;nd what about nuts?
&#23405;ren't
> >> these one of the
> >> wonder foods that will supplant meat in our diet??? &#21655;ell, a pecan
tree
> >> takes a
> >> good 15-30 years to reach maturity depending on the hybrid!!!! now that
> >> tree
> >> will produce for a good long time, but do you really think a pecan
> orchard
> >> is
> >> all that productive?
> >>
> >> Overall, we would do well to lower our meat intake for both environmental
> >> and
> >> health reasons. &#13774;owever, if we wanted to really do this right, we
> >> would all buy
> >> a goat for milk, have it eat our grass and weeds for milk, then eat the
> >> kids.
> >>
> >> In fact, goat meat is much more in line with human nutrition than lamb
> and
> >> lamb
> >> more in line than beef or pork.
> >>
> >> My wife and I have our own flock of chickens we use for eggs. &#21655;e
raise a
> >> couple of pigs each year, and do raise a few meat goats each year.
&#21873;
> >> still
> >> like to eat a nice juicy steak once in a while. &#21655;e raise most of
our
> >> vegetables
> >> from the garden, although the weather in East Texas has been anti-garden
> >> for
> >> three years strait...luckily, we put away a lot three years ago.
> >>
> >> I don't know if what I am doing is making any great contribution to the
> >> earth's
> >> environment. &#21873; certainly can't say that I'm setting some great
example,
> >> as
> >> who the heck sees what I'm doing anyway? &#13774;owever, I have always had
this
> >> idea that pseudohomesteading (my term I invented comparing what we do to
> >> the
> >> movement from the 1970s) would be fun. &#22162;o, we are doing it because
we
> >> like to live this
> >> way. &#21873;f it wasn't for a pile of student loans and medical bills, I
> >> might just go off the
> >> grid and give the world the proverbial phalange, except for the
> >> occassional journal
> >> article I publish, letter to the editor, and maybe even a listserv
> >> post if I kept the
> >> internet for contact with the real world. &#21873; also enjoy watching TV,
> >> so it can't go
> >> either. &#23405;nd then there is central air and heat. &#22050;h, and
running water.
> >> &#22046;adio,
> >> music, damn....I'm back on the grid and almost hit yupeeville :(
> >>
> >> If everyone pics ONE CAUSE and stuck with it, the world would be a better
> >> place.
> >> If your cause is recycling, and you do it religiously, and a bunch of
> >> other people also do it,
> >> it will have an impact.
> >>
> >> But the real problem is that there are a lot of people who do
> >> absolutely nothing, have
> >> absolutely no interest in the health of the environment, and a mess of
> >> people who are
> >> actually at war with environmental causes. If even most people tried
> >> to do something,
> >> I think you would see an environmental revolution. &#21530;nfortunately,
most
> >> people
> >> are consumed by other things and even if they are concerned about the
> >> environment,
> >> they really are not engaged in anything of environmental importance.
> >>
> >> How's that for a completely bleak outlook.
> >> Ask me tomorrow and I may have a more positive slant!
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 9:50 PM, Kevin McCluney<[email protected]>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I recently attended the 2009 annual meeting of the Ecological Society of
> >>> America (ESA). &#31949;he theme of this year&#26087; meeting was
sustainability.
> >>> &#31949;here
> >>> were many great talks on this subject and a few truly pessimistic ones.
> >>> &#22050;ne
> >>> speaker proposed that human beings are, by our very nature, destined to
> >>> consume and reproduce as much as possible, and despite our best efforts,
> >>> this will lead to our own demise. &#39224;uring the same talk the speaker
also
> >>> asked, &#32884;ho is responsible?&#65533; &#13774;e answered his question
by saying that we
> >>> at
> >>> this conference are just as much a part of the problem as anyone else.
> >>>
> >>> Is this true? &#21873; know I myself have taken many steps to lower my
> >>> footprint
> >>> and many other ecologists have as well.
> >>>
> >>> For instance, at last year&#26087; ESA meeting in Milwaukee there was an
> >>> interesting occurrence at local restaurants. &#31949;he first night of
the
> >>> conference I had a really good veggie burger at one restaurant. &#21873;
went
> >>> back
> >>> later in the week for another. &#31949;he waitress apologized&#65533; they
were all
> >>> out.
> >>> She went on to explain that the manager had heard our conference was
> >>> coming
> >>> to town, so bought extra ahead of time, but ran out of those quickly
> >>> anyway.
> >>> The manager then went to the local grocery store and bought more.
&#33079;ut
> >>> alas,
> >>> by the time I returned, they had run out of those as well.
&#21867;urther,
> when
> >>> I
> >>> dine with friends at ESA meetings, I often find that more than half the
> >>> table orders vegetarian entrees.
> >>>
> >>> Why does eating vegetarian matter so much? &#22000;odern, industrialized
> >>> livestock
> >>> production is one of the more environmentally destructive human
> >>> endeavors.
> >>> It contributes roughly one fifth of all our greenhouse gas emissions,
> >>> more
> >>> than all cars, and these gases are major contributors to the rapid
> >>> climate
> >>> change we虐e experiencing. &#13778;ivestock production also may, in
certain
> >>> cases,
> >>> be leading to deforestation and destruction of important ecosystems, as
> >>> well
> >>> as to pollution of rivers, lakes, and even oceans. &#21873;n addition, we
all
> >>> know
> >>> that basic ecological principles hold that it takes less resources to
> >>> raise
> >>> plant based food sources than meat based, since energy is lost as you
> >>> move
> >>> up the food chain. &#31949;hus we can feed more people and use fewer
resources
> >>> on
> >>> a plant-based diet. &#23405;ll this caused the chairman of the
> >>> Intergovernmental
> >>> Panel on Climate Change recently to proclaim that the best thing a
> person
> >>> could do to reduce their impact on climate change was to eat a more
> >>> plant-
> >>> based diet.
> >>>
> >>> My wife and I haven急 stopped at eating low on the food chain.
&#21655;e&#25369;e
> >>> also
> >>> joined community supported agriculture, where we buy a share of produce
> >>> from
> >>> a local farm. &#31949;he farmer gets upfront economic security and we get
very
> >>> affordable, local, fresh organic produce. &#21655;e pay just $18 per week
for
> a
> >>> large bag of food. &#23405;t this price we can afford to supplement our
diet
> >>> with
> >>> additional organic items from the grocery store.
> >>>
> >>> We&#25369;e also taken a variety of other steps, from riding my bike to
work,
> >>> to
> >>> offsetting car and air travel through renewable energy from an
> >>> independently
> >>> certified company, to buying 100% of our electricity from renewable
> >>> sources
> >>> through our local utility for as little as $15 per month.
> >>>
> >>> While we may not be reaching the small ecological footprint of those in
> >>> many
> >>> third world countries, we&#25369;e done our best to come in line with our
> >>> planet&#26087;
> >>> limits while maintaining a decent quality of life.
> >>>
> >>> So, are ecologists just as much a part of the problem as everyone else?
> >>> &#23405;re
> >>> all ecologists the same? &#21655;hat are the variety of lifestyle choices
made
> >>> by
> >>> ecologists? &#22021;ot only would the answers to these questions provide
a
> >>> response to the ESA presenter, but I think the answer would be
> >>> interesting
> >>> to a wide audience. &#21873; propose that ESA conduct a poll of members,
> asking
> >>> questions about lifestyle choices and demographics, comparing ours to
> >>> that
> >>> of the general public. &#21873;f we are not different, this would be a bit
of
> a
> >>> wake-up call. &#13774;owever, if we are different, then perhaps some of
our
> >>> lifestyle choices would be informative to understanding how to achieve a
> >>> more sustainable society.
> >>>
> >>> If there is one thing I learned from a cultural anthropology course I
> >>> once
> >>> took, it was that there isn急 just one right way to live. &#13774;uman
> cultures
> >>> throughout the world are very diverse. &#33079;ut, from the inside of one
> >>> culture
> >>> it is often very hard to see other ways to live. &#13778;et us not be
trapped
> >>> in
> >>> our culture, but seek a better understanding of all the ways of living,
> >>> so
> >>> that we might find a more sustainable path.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Kevin E. McCluney
> >>> Graduate Student
> >>> School of Life Sciences
> >>> Arizona State University
> >>> Tempe, AZ 85287-4601
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Malcolm L. McCallum
> >> Associate Professor of Biology
> >> Managing Editor,
> >> Herpetological Conservation and Biology
> >> Texas A&M University-Texarkana
> >> Fall Teaching Schedule:
> >> Vertebrate Biology - TR 10-11:40; General Ecology - MW 1-2:40pm;
> >> Forensic Science - &#21655; 6-9:40pm
> >> Office Hourse- TBA
> >>
> >> 1880's: "There's lots of good fish in the sea" &#21655;.S. Gilbert
> >> 1990's: &#22000;any fish stocks depleted due to overfishing, habitat loss,
> >> &#160; &#160; &#160; &#160; &#160; and pollution.
> >> 2000: &#22000;arine reserves, ecosystem restoration, and pollution
reduction
> >> &#160; &#160; &#160; &#160; MAY help restore populations.
> >> 2022: Soylent Green is People!
> >>
> >> Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any
> >> attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may
> >> contain confidential and privileged information. &#23405;ny unauthorized
> >> review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. &#21873;f you are
not
> >> the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and
> >> destroy all copies of the original message.
> >>
> >>
> >> --
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Malcolm L. McCallum
> Associate Professor of Biology
> Managing Editor,
> Herpetological Conservation and Biology
> Texas A&M University-Texarkana
> Fall Teaching Schedule:
> Vertebrate Biology - TR 10-11:40; General Ecology - MW 1-2:40pm;
> Forensic Science -  W 6-9:40pm
> Office Hourse- TBA
> 
> 1880's: "There's lots of good fish in the sea"  W.S. Gilbert
> 1990's:  Many fish stocks depleted due to overfishing, habitat loss,
>             and pollution.
> 2000:  Marine reserves, ecosystem restoration, and pollution reduction
>           MAY help restore populations.
> 2022: Soylent Green is People!
> 
> Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any
> attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may
> contain confidential and privileged information.  Any unauthorized
> review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited.  If you are not
> the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and
> destroy all copies of the original message.
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