Re: [ECOLOG-L] David Starr Jordan Indiana U Re: [ECOLOG-L] Jordan's rule Folkloric Tangent

[Dan Brumbaugh]

Great stories- thanks. Clark Hubbs, who died in 2008, was a professor at 
UT Austin. There are links and other information at 
http://www.utexas.edu/tmm/tnhc/fish/hubbs/HIS/index.html.

Cheers,
Dan
McNeely and all:

Most interesting. That's a great story about the kids. Whatever 
happened to Clark? I wonder if he ever connected with Ed Ricketts? I 
don't remember anything I've read about Ricketts mentioning him.

My wife, Rose Tyson, who was curator of physical anthropology at the 
Museum of Man, had the Hubbs (midden) collection transferred to the 
University of San Diego sometime around the turn of the millennium 
along with an inventory done by her volunteer, Daniel Elerick. This 
collection was from several archaeological sites along the Pacific 
coast, all the way to the tip of Baja California Sur. I wonder if 
anyone has put together any kind of biography of Hubbs? These kinds of 
stories help bring these folks to life for future generations. My wife 
did a physical anthropology paper on a burial from this collection, 
and Charles Merbs did one on the pathologies. Who knows what treasures 
the collection might hold for future generations?

I liked Hubbs right away. He was all business; no pretensions. He took 
you at face value. I just recalled one story he told me--Hubbs was 
hiking northward in the mountains of Japan with a guide. In the midst 
of the wilderness, they came to a sign. He asked for a translation. 
The guide said, "Sign say 'This spot most north where Camellia grow.'" 
He told me other stories about his visits with the Emperor, but I have 
forgotten them. His family has probably written them down or remembers 
them. Hubbs' wife, an M.D. herself, I believe, also helped Hubbs by 
laying out his manuscripts on a large table so he could work on 
several at one time. My wife, too, has been an enormous help to me 
over the last 39 or 40 years; I would not be whatever I am without 
her, though I don't blame her for what I am not.

I hope others will post stories about Hubbs and other highly 
accomplished students of natural history and other sciences. I have an 
audiotape of Margaret Mead and Fred Singer that I made in 1972. I wish 
I could remember more. G. Ledyard Stebbins let me videotape him in a 
darkened motel room in Sacramento many years ago--I should have the 
tape somewhere if it hasn't fallen apart. I also videotaped one of 
this lectures to the local Chapter of the CNPS. There was another one 
out of a very similar rock from which Hubbs was chiseled, and he had 
stories about others, generations before his time. I can't remember 
the names of the characters, but one Stebbins liked to tell was about 
an early lady botanist (and, I believe, M.D.) and a very proper 
Victorian era gentleman scientist who were out on an expedition 
(strictly scientific, mind you) by horse-drawn buggy in California 
when the lady espied an aquatic plant she wanted to press. The 
gentleman removed his shoes and rolled up his pants to retrieve the 
specimen, but found that the water was too deep. He said something 
like, "I fear I shall not be able to collect the specimen, dear lady." 
"Take off your pants," said she. "Oh, I COULDN'T," said he. "Take them 
off," said she, "I've AUTOPSIED better men than you!" I hope someone 
can identify these characters--they were quite well-known.

WT

I realize that I made some errors in my last post. I have added text 
in (parentheses). There may still be others.


----- Original Message ----- From: <mcnee...@cox.net>
To: <ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU>; "Wayne Tyson" <landr...@cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] David Starr Jordan Indiana U Re: [ECOLOG-L] 
Jordan's rule Folkloric Tangent


Hubbs kept an "academic geneology" showing the descendents of his 
students. So, when I published my first paper after starting work on 
my Ph.D., I got a note from him, as part of a reprint request. He had 
sketched my "academic geneology" on the card.  Probably a majority of  
ichthyologists and  fish ecologists in North America are descended 
from David Starr Jordan, mostly through Carl Hubbs or Robert Rush 
Miller or both.  Clark Hubbs told me that when the two families went 
into the field together, the kids got paid for new species and extra 
for new genera of fishes they helped to collect. Since they were 
working the American Southwest and northern Mexico in the thirties, 
there were lots to be had.

David McNeely

---- Wayne Tyson <landr...@cox.net> wrote:

McNeely and all:

Thanks for this; it hits close to home, if only a ricochet. Fond (but 
faded) memories of my main contact with Hubbs. A bunch of locals were 
asked to evaluate the site of the coming Wild Animal Park of the San 
Diego zoo (now called the San Diego Zoo "Safari Park.") I had a 1968 
Ford Bronco, and somehow it turned out that Hubbs rode with me as we 
drove all over the property. The date must have been in the early 
'70's. I was astounded at his breadth of knowledge. He identified a 
few scraps of bivalve shell a few hundred feet away, so practiced was 
his eye. My wife used his work on Mytilus sp. in her midden research 
in Baja California. Hubbs hair was jet black. Only his hairdresser 
would know for sure, but I doubt he had one.

Ian Player had been consulted and had recommended a network of 
"tunnels" be incorporated into the large acreages where several 
species were to roam "free." Both Hubbs and I thought it was a 
helluva good idea, and we (together with several people from the San 
Diego Natural History Museum (including Helen Witham/Chamlee), based 
our report on the assumption that Player's idea would be accepted. I 
incorporated a complimentary idea to create "islands" of vegetation 
that would be staggered across the slopes to trap silt from the 
inevitable erosion, enclosed with moveable barriers (elephant- and 
rhino-resistant) that would have vegetation that could be trampled 
and eaten and serve as shade and cover for smaller animals, both free 
and captive. (These were to be rotated at different times.)

We prepared an extensive report, but we (or at least I) weren't 
permitted to present it in person or to answer questions. The Zoo 
director (Charles Schroder, if I remember correctly) rejected the 
idea(s) (Player's and our) and opted instead for a monorail, a much 
more expensive option. Every time there is a fuss about the erosion 
problem it's all I can do to tell 'em I told 'em so. The rumor was 
that Schroder was a real dictator. Years later, when I told an 
astounded if not enraged Chuck Faust the story, he wanted to see a 
copy of the report, but I hadn't kept one.

Hubbs had a great secretary, Betty Shor, who organized all his 
publications and kept meticulous records, all neatly filed away in 
banks of wooden pigeonholes. Hubbs died later in the seventies, in 
his eighties, but when I saw him, even on one or two occasions after 
our trip. If you requested a reprint, you might be reminded that you 
had requested the same reprint several years past.

I'll share a story (as best I can remember it) about Jordan, told by 
Ray Gilmore (at the time curator of marine mammals for the (San 
Diego) Natural History Museum). Jordan and a colleague were walking 
across campus one day when a student asked Dr. Jordan a question, 
which, upon answering, Jordan asked the student's name. Jordan's 
colleague asked him why he didn't remember his student's names. 
Jordan replied, "Every time I remember the name of a student, I 
forget the name of a fish!"

WT


----- Original Message ----- From: "David L. McNeely" <mcnee...@cox.net>
To: <ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] David Starr Jordan Indiana U Re: [ECOLOG-L] 
Jordan's rule


Why do people keep posting things that seem as if the matter is a bit 
equivocal.  It is not.  "Jordan's Rule" refers to David Starr 
Jordan's work with meristic features of fishes.  It was almost 
certainly so named by his star student, Carl Hubbs.  The references I 
posted earlier should clear the matter up for those for whom it is 
not clear (it is clear to me), and if pursued, likely would 
definitively answer the original question in favor of Carl Hubbs.  
That original question was not for whom was the rule named, but by 
whom was the term coined.

David McNeely

---- Susan Kephart <skeph...@willamette.edu> wrote:
> The last few posts all lead to the same path.. I"m not an expert on 
all > Jordan's accomplishments as I work w. plants, but Indiana 
University > should have quite a digest on him since that's where he 
worked for many > years. One of the biology buildings there is named 
after him
>
> S
>
> On Aug 29, 2012, at 8:02 AM, Chava Weitzman wrote:
>
> > How about this one:  Jordan, D.S. (1892) Relations of temperature to
> > vertebrae among fishes. Proceedings of the United States National 
> > Museum,
> > 1891, 107–120.
> >
> > Cited in:
> > R. M. McDowall. 2007. Jordan’s and other ecogeographical rules, 
and > > the
> > vertebral number in fishes.  Journal of Biogeography.
> > 
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2699.2007.01823.x/full
> > Chava
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 7:25 AM, Jan Ygberg <jygb...@gmail.com> 
wrote:
> >
> >> Dear all
> >>
> >> Maybe this one? :
> >>
> >>
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_algebra
> >>
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascual_Jordan
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >>
> >>
> >> Jan H. N. Ygberg
> >> Public Relations
> >> Resident Naturalists Programme Coordinator
> >>
> >>                                 EXPLORER'S INN
> >>                                           in the
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> >> Twitter: @explorersinn
> >>
> >> 2012/8/28 Philippe Golay <g...@geneva-link.ch>
> >>
> >>> Dear all,
> >>>
> >>> do you know who coined the expression « Jordan’s rule » or « 
Jordan’s
> >> law »
> >>> (fish species develop more vertebrae in a cold environment than 
in a > >>> warm
> >>> one) ?
> >>>
> >>> Thank you in advance.
> >>> Truly yours.
> >>>
> >>> Philippe
> >>>
> >>> SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
> >>>
> >>> Philippe GOLAY
> >>> elapsoïdea
> >>> 21, chemin du Moulin
> >>> CH – 1233 Bernex
> >>> tel : +41(0)22 7771131
> >>> mail : g...@geneva-link.ch
> >>>
> >>> SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
> >>> L’autre jour, au fond d’un vallon, Un serpent piqua Jean 
Fréron. Que
> >>> pensez-vous qu’il arriva? Ce fut le serpent qui creva.. (Voltaire,
> >> Poésies
> >>> mêlées)
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>

--
David McNeely


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David McNeely


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