I am not so interested in whether or not "I" am correct, but that there is clarity between at least the most crucial distinctions between misconceptions and reality. I am not out to "get" Dawkins or Attenborough; it's not a game of "King on the Mountain" to me, but when words lead to misconceptions I impulsively (and as necessary, persistently) want to more fully understand the meanings of others, particularly "world-renown authorities." It may well be, that those two examples understand evolution better than I, and I want me and my friends to be able to depend upon them to continue to clarify their points--note that both the famous authority on trilobites declined to respond to my second question, as did Dawkins. Therefore I considered that those gentlemen either considered the matter closed or felt that my second enquiries lacked sufficient merit for their further consideration.

I get the impression that the Time-Life book seared the picture of the superiority of Homo sapiens (and man) in the minds of the public. It's publication certainly proved useful to cartoonists who have produced mountains of satirical mimicry of it. This might be the key to a number of issues surrounding evolution and biology. If that is the case, I believe it is the responsibility of all of us, particularly professors and teachers, to get it right and see that their students do.

The bottom line remains: What are the positions of evolutionary biologists on this question, and what are the positions of all non-evolutionary biologists. Ecologists?

WT

----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>; "Wayne Tyson" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] EVOLUTION Misconceptions Re: [ECOLOG-L] evolution vs. natural selection videos


Wayne, I believe you are substantially correct in your understanding of the general perception of "improvement" through natural selection and evolution. I am surprised at Dawkins, as he is considered both one of the top evolutionary biologists and a top publicist for evolution and scientific thinking. Hmmm...... . Attenborough I am not surprised about, and though he has been very successful at helping the public understand a great deal about nature, I have heard a good bit of this "progress" notion from him in the "Nature" series, including just this week regarding Chimpanzees, tool usage, and the relationship of Chimpanzees to people (though of course, and as Attenborough certainly knows, there is no ancestral relationship between the two).

David McNeely

---- Wayne Tyson <[email protected]> wrote:
Thanks to Catherine for the link to this actual list. My example of a
misconception (example: Evolution improves species over time.) is quite well
answered:

"MISCONCEPTION: Evolution results in progress; organisms are always getting
better through evolution.

"CORRECTION: One important mechanism of evolution, natural selection, does
result in the evolution of improved abilities to survive and reproduce;
however, this does not mean that evolution is progressive - for several
reasons. First, as described in a misconception below (link to "Natural
selection produces organisms perfectly suited to their environments"),
natural selection does not produce organisms perfectly suited to their
environments. It often allows the survival of individuals with a range of
traits - individuals that are "good enough" to survive. Hence, evolutionary change is not always necessary for species to persist. Many taxa (like some
mosses, fungi, sharks, opossums, and crayfish) have changed little
physically over great expanses of time. Second, there are other mechanisms
of evolution that don't cause adaptive change. Mutation, migration, and
genetic drift may cause populations to evolve in ways that are actually
harmful overall or make them less suitable for their environments. For
example, the Afrikaner population of South Africa has an unusually high
frequency of the gene responsible for Huntington's disease because the gene
version drifted to high frequency as the population grew from a small
starting population. Finally, the whole idea of "progress" doesn't make
sense when it comes to evolution. Climates change, rivers shift course, new competitors invade - and an organism with traits that are beneficial in one situation may be poorly equipped for survival when the environment changes. And even if we focus on a single environment and habitat, the idea of how to
measure "progress" is skewed by the perspective of the observer. From a
plant's perspective, the best measure of progress might be photosynthetic
ability; from a spider's it might be the efficiency of a venom delivery
system; from a human's, cognitive ability. It is tempting to see evolution
as a grand progressive ladder with Homo sapiens emerging at the top. But
evolution produces a tree, not a ladder - and we are just one of many twigs
on the tree."

According to my straw polls of randomly selected people, usually with quite good minds and broad knowledge, cling to this misconception. I wonder what percentage of "scientists," particularly evolutionary biologists, continue
to entertain this misconception. I may, myself, be laboring under a
misconception, but I first became interested in this when I saw a David
Attenborough nature program on TV, where he and a professor were discussing the evolution of trilobites; both spoke of the concept of "advancement" of
species. I was unable to contact Sir Attenborough, but I did contact the
professor, tops in the field, and asked if he thought that trilobites
"advanced" or improved with time. He responded in the affirmative. I asked
the same question that has thus far been circumvented by this thread
recently, particularly by questioners on that specific point, of the
professor--if he then though that Neanderthals were inferior to Cro-Magnons.
He did not, then, reply.

I then posted the question to Jerry Coyne's blog, "Why Evolution is True,"
and immediately got a response from someone calling himself "Richard
Dawkins" who said something to the effect that species certainly did advance
or improve--an answer quite on point of the question. Other respondents
became angry and seemed to avoid the point (with at least one notable
exception), but the long and the short of it was that I ended up having to apologize (for my impertinence?), for just what I'm not sure--but it kept me
from being asked to "leave," as Coyne has done with other impertinent
posters. My attempts at clarification having no substantial effect, I went
dark on the blog and now rarely read the posts.

Unless I am wrong, it appears that this misconception was strongly
reinforced in the "public" mind by the 1965 publication of the Time-Life
book, "Human Evolution." A major feature of this book was a lovely, fold-out
page that illustrated how Homo sapiens had evolved from "more primitive"
ancestors, depicting what has been called "The March of Progress" among
other names. Both the drawing and the accompanying text seem to reinforce
this misconception.

I beg to be corrected in the case of my own misconceptions; if not, I hope this misconception will be laid to rest and that clarity finally will come,
at least among evolutionary biologists.

WT


----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Tarsiewicz" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 2:29 AM
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] evolution vs. natural selection videos


> Hello EcoLog:
>
> The link below provides a pretty comprehensive list.  There is a
> clarification given for each misconception.
>
> http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/misconceptions_faq.php
>
> Search "misconceptions" instead of "myths"; this is the common > terminology > for teachers to use when preparing for common erroneous ideas or > beliefs.
>
> Regards,
>
> Catherine Tarsiewicz
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:37 AM, Ryan McEwan <[email protected]> > wrote:
>
>> Evolution **improves** fit between a species traits and and local
>> selection
>> pressure(s) through time.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 9:52 PM, Wayne Tyson <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > Bruce and Ecolog:
>> >
>> > I would like to see the video. And I would like to see a list of
>> > "strange
>> > myths." Perhaps Ecolog subscribers could post those of which they >> > are
>> aware?
>> >
>> > For example: Evolution improves species over time.
>> >
>> > WT
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Robertson" >> > <[email protected]>
>> > To: <[email protected]>
>> > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 10:43 AM
>> > Subject: [ECOLOG-L] evolution vs. natural selection videos
>> >
>> >
>> >  Dear All,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I've been looking for a great little short video on evolution and
>> natural
>> >> selection to show my sophomore college students. There used to be a
>> >> fantastic little video online entitled, "Evolution: Addressing
>> falsehoods,
>> >> explaining basics". It was done in flash animation, was narrated by >> >> a >> >> British fellow, and gave the basics of evolution and natural >> >> selection
>> and
>> >> artificial selection in such a clean and fantastic way. I cannot >> >> find
>> >> it
>> >> any
>> >> longer but would love if anybody knows the creator or another link >> >> to
>> >> it
>> >> (that title may not be its original one). Other information about >> >> this >> >> video. It gave an example on the origin of the modern desert >> >> banana,
>> >> and
>> >> spent a short amount of time debunking strange myths about >> >> evolution
>> >> by
>> >> those who don't understand it. Please let me know if you have clues >> >> or
>> >> a
>> >> link to this video, or if you can suggest an alternative that is
>> >> someone
>> >> short and concise.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Thank you very much,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Bruce Robertson
>> >>
>> >> Assistant Professor of Biology
>> >>
>> >> Division of Science, Mathematics and Computing
>> >>
>> >> Bard College
>> >>
>> >> 30 Campus Drive
>> >>
>> >> Annandale-on-Hudson, New York 23504
>> >>
>> >> Email:  <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]
>> >>
>> >> Office: 845-752-2332
>> >>
>> >> Homepage: brucerobertson.weebly.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----
>> >> No virus found in this message.
>> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> >> Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2639/5563 - Release Date:
>> >> 01/28/13
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2639/5568 - Release Date: 01/30/13
>

--
David McNeely


-----
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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