In answer to Clara's question - I am pursuing a higher degree along an
ecology/molecular biology vein in order to do research that is relevant to
marine conservation efforts as well as educate.
It is true that a professor has no obligation to be a friend nor to relate
personally but it is not unreasonable to expect to be treated as an adult and
with courtesy and respect. It is no less than I would expect of myself where
others are concerned. I have been very fortunate thus far. There is always a
choice and each of us is ultimately responsible for our own happiness whatever
that requires.
CR
On Feb 15, 2013, at 9:30 AM, Clara B. Jones wrote:
> ...i'm assuming you'll be in graduate school in some area related to
> Ecology...what, perchance, are you seeking...what do you want to do...data
> suggest that females are "relationship-oriented", males, "instrumental"
> [yes, i understand that those generalizations are not universal or
> statistically independent]...you don't need to go to grad school to find
> relationships...but you can't find a terrific education anywhere...great
> professors are not necessarily nice...and have no obligation to relate to
> students personally...
>
> On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 9:07 PM, Cynthia Ross <cyn_r...@sbcglobal.net>wrote:
>
>> I'm piping up here as a 40-something heading into grad school. Maybe it's
>> a bit of a digression but one of the disturbing things I have noticed as a
>> "non-traditional" student is that my younger fellow students were often
>> afraid to speak up when something was amiss or to be honest about their
>> needs. Rather they will say and do what they think the
>> advisor/mentor/instructor wants without discussing it which often resulted
>> in frustration and resentment by one or both parties. In my experience,
>> honesty has proven to be the best policy even if it is not the news the
>> other wants to hear. Things happen and life doesn't stop just because you
>> are in a demanding job or a M.S. or PhD program. If we are honest about
>> what we need and what our limitations are, adjustments can be made and we
>> can move forward. At the very least you retain your self-respect and gain
>> the respect of the other party for your honesty. It's really all about
>> communication as in any relationship. That said, some people are just
>> unreasonable but then why would you want to work with them? Life is just
>> too short.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> CR
>>
>>
>> On Feb 14, 2013, at 5:09 PM, Aaron T. Dossey wrote:
>>
>>> Doesn't a requirement that a salaried employee work more than 40 hours
>> (literally or de-facto) violate labor laws? Maybe it's just a matter of a
>> greater need for <professors, sit down for this one> law enforcement,
>> accountability and transparency?
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/14/2013 3:08 PM, Judith S. Weis wrote:
>>>> It should be strongly recommended to all grad school applicants to learn
>>>> about their potential advisors ahead of time by talking to grad students
>>>> in that lab and in other labs. That way you can find out about the
>>>> person's attitudes towards grad students having a life, having a family
>>>> etc. and whether or not they demand 12-hour days and weekends etc. That
>>>> way you know what you will be getting into and can make a more informed
>>>> choice of advisor. There are many humane professors out there. I'd like
>> to
>>>> think that I have been one of them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> OK, after a couple of days of thought, I'll take up the gauntlet.
>>>>> Academia is extremely competitive. That's because there are a lot of
>>>>> really smart people out there who want to do this work and not a lot of
>>>>> positions available for them. That's a fact we can't get around. If you
>>>>> want to survive in the ecology pond, you either need to be a big,
>>>>> fast fish, or you need to be a fish that doesn't eat much. Or you
>> leave,
>>>>> and ecology becomes a hobby or side interest while you make a living
>> doing
>>>>> something else.
>>>>> But in the pond, we can still be good to each other. During my time in
>>>>> grad school, I had a life. I got married and started a family. It
>> took me
>>>>> 8 years to get my PhD. But at no time did anyone say I should be
>> working
>>>>> more instead of being with my family. And I did not work nights and
>>>>> weekends. I always had the full support of my advisors, committee and
>>>>> department. (Some of whom are on this list - you know who you are, and
>>>>> thank you!)
>>>>> I was on the verge of crawling out of the pond, but someone decided
>> to
>>>>> give me a chance, despite my unwillingness to commit to more than 40
>> hours
>>>>> a week. I now have a (non-tenure track) faculty position, which is
>>>>> perfect for me right now because I STILL don't work nights and weekends
>>>>> (usually anyway). I am not a big fish, but I'm in the pond, well, a
>>>>> neighboring pond. And now as I work with grad students, I support
>> them
>>>>> in pursuing their own research interests and in their desire to have a
>>>>> life outside of school (sometimes I need to remind them). I can't
>> change
>>>>> the competitiveness of academia, but academia is made up of
>> individuals.
>>>>> As one individual in the system, I can affect my own little sphere of
>> it,
>>>>> and I don't think, based on other individuals that IÂ know, that I'm
>>>>> particularly unusual. Not every fish will be able to stay in the pond,
>> but
>>>>> I personally will do what I can to help the fish around me.
>>>>> I wish the writer of the original blog every success in his new
>> endeavor,
>>>>> and I am happy he has found a supportive community. Hurray for beer!
>>>>> Sarah
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sarah Jack Hinners, PhD
>>>>> Assistant Professor - Research
>>>>> Metropolitan Research Center
>>>>> City and Metropolitan Planning
>>>>> University of Utah
>>>>> 375 S 1530 E rm 226
>>>>> Salt Lake City, UT 84112
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Aaron T. Dossey <bugoc...@gmail.com>
>>>>> To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 9:31 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] how we lose good scientists - silence?
>>>>>
>>>>> "Nature intended me for the tranquil pursuits of science, by rendering
>>>>> them my supreme delight. But the enormities of the times in which I
>> have
>>>>> lived, have forced me to take a part in resisting them, and to commit
>>>>> myself on the boisterous ocean of political passions." -- Thomas
>> Jefferson
>>>>>
>>>>> ╲In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the
>>>>> silence of our friends.╡ ╠Martin Luther King Jr.
>>>>> "If you see something, SAY SOMETHING." -- <origin unknown>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/13/2013 11:27 AM, malcolm McCallum wrote:
>>>>>> If scientists and academia are not willing to stand up for themselves,
>>>>>> who will?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 9:52 AM, Aaron T. Dossey <bugoc...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Complete silence. Could academia be feeling some shame here? .....
>>>>>>> nah....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The article has a few new comments on the article itself though,
>> check
>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>> out!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://deepseanews.com/2013/02/19294/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/notes/national-postdoc-union/ideas-for-expanding-opportunity-and-innovation-in-science-careers/279532325495663
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/11/2013 10:24 AM, Jarrett Byrnes wrote:
>>>>>>>> Colleagues,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I just read a piece that describes how one young bright and very
>>>>>>>> talented
>>>>>>>> scientist was lost to our profession. It's an open and honest
>>>>>>>> discussion of
>>>>>>>> one man's struggles with the way modern academia works, and how it
>> can
>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>> use eat our young, as it were. I think it points out a lot of the
>>>>>>>> hidden
>>>>>>>> corners and the darker sides of how academic science currently
>> works -
>>>>>>>> things we make jokes about or shake our heads at, and sometimes, in
>>>>>>>> moments
>>>>>>>> of bravery, we confront and try to change. Heck, I'd like to think
>>>>>>>> that we
>>>>>>>> Ecologists are better than most other fields, but I know that to not
>>>>>>>> always
>>>>>>>> be the case.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The post is at http://deepseanews.com/2013/02/19294/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think there is a lot in this piece to unpack. I know a some on
>> this
>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>> or out in academia who will think that the author _should_ leave
>>>>>>>> science and
>>>>>>>> does not deserve to be here. And I'm sure that there are other sides
>>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>> story being told, etc. etc. The specifics, though, are less
>>>>>>>> important than
>>>>>>>> the broad patterns and themes it evinces.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Given the conversation is has spawned in comments, other blogs, and
>>>>>>>> Twitter, it is clear this is not an isolated story. It dovetails
>>>>>>>> with many
>>>>>>>> issues that we traditionally relegate to 'leaky pipeline'
>> discussions,
>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>> are true regardless of gender - indeed, gender, race, class, and
>> lack
>>>>>>>> privileged background often only amplify them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The piece is worth reading, and then asking, what effect does
>> driving
>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>> voices like this have on science as a whole? Are we better or
>> poorer
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> such losses? Is this acceptable?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Food for thought.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Jarrett
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jarrett Byrnes
>>>>>>>> Assistant Professor
>>>>>>>> Department of Biology
>>>>>>>> University of Massachusetts Boston
>>>>>>>> 100 Morrissey Blvd.
>>>>>>>> Boston, MA 02125
>>>>>>>> 617-287-3145
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://jarrettbyrnes.info
>>>>>>>> b: http://imachordata.com
>>>>>>>> t: @jebyrnes
>>>>>>>> g+: http://gplus.to/jebyrnes
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Aaron T. Dossey, Ph.D.
>>>>>>> Biochemistry and Molecular Biology
>>>>>>> Founder/Owner: All Things Bugs
>>>>>>> Capitalizing on Low-Crawling Fruit from Insect-Based Innovation
>>>>>>> http://allthingsbugs.com/about/people/
>>>>>>> http://www.facebook.com/Allthingsbugs
>>>>>>> 1-352-281-3643
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Aaron T. Dossey, Ph.D.
>>>>> Biochemistry and Molecular Biology
>>>>> Founder/Owner: All Things Bugs
>>>>> Capitalizing on Low-Crawling Fruit from Insect-Based Innovation
>>>>> http://allthingsbugs.com/about/people/
>>>>> http://www.facebook.com/Allthingsbugs
>>>>> 1-352-281-3643
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Aaron T. Dossey, Ph.D.
>>> Biochemistry and Molecular Biology
>>> Founder/Owner: All Things Bugs
>>> Capitalizing on Low-Crawling Fruit from Insect-Based Innovation
>>> http://allthingsbugs.com/about/people/
>>> http://www.facebook.com/Allthingsbugs
>>> 1-352-281-3643
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Clara B. Jones
> Director
> Mammals and Phenogroups (MaPs)
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/cbjones1943
> Cell: -828-279-4429
> Blog Profile: http://www.blogger.com/profile/09089578792549394529
> Brief CV:
> http://vertebratesocialbehavior.blogspot.com/2012/10/clara-b-jones-brief-cv.html
>
>
>
> "Where no estimate of error of any kind can be made, generalizations about
> populations from sample data are worthless." Ferguson, 1959
