I made mediocre scores on the GREs, and I normally do exceptionally well on standardized tests. The GREs struck me as a scam, from the noisy, crowded testing room (What other company would let parents stand around and watch?!) to the secretive subject topics. I had no idea that much of the math section would be on the esoteric topic of prime numbers, but was informed by other test-takers later that the paid GRE tutoring programs are designed to inform clients of just that sort of thing.
The entire experience was ridiculous. Fortunately UMBC's graduate program was willing to overlook my mediocre performance, so that company didn't get another check off of me. I would not rely on this metric when selecting a student. Sincerely, On Sep 4, 2014 3:24 PM, "Stephen L. Young" <[email protected]> wrote: > Ditto that comment. What got my interest was the goals statement that the > individual wrote as part of their application. Not only was it > well-written, but it was right in line with the focus of my program. I > asked numerous faculty about it and decided to go out on a limb and give > the student the opportunity. Except for a lot of re-writing, the student > was the best I¹ve had. By the fourth manuscript, their writing was much > improved. > > Steve > > > > > > On 9/4/14, 7:55 AM, "Judith S. Weis" <[email protected]> wrote: > > >Yes, but.... > >I have had a number of foreign students who could not write English very > >well and I had to do a lot of re-writing on their dissertations - but the > >research itself was excellent and we produced many publications. Just more > >work on the major professor's part. > > > > > > > > > >> I agree with this assessment - especially since some small liberal arts > >> colleges engage in grade inflation - GPA's are not always reliable. I > >> think there is considerable value to the GRE scores and having a minimum > >> is useful. Above that, scores vary widely and are not always predictive > >> of ultimate success. The most important thing that should be assessed - > >> and the GREs do not do an adequate job here - is writing ability. Even > >> mediocre students can complete a research project and muddle through the > >> data analysis, but when it comes to writing, the grain and chafe fall > >> into two distinct piles. The worse thing you can do for your career is > >> to take on mediocre students with poor writing skills. If a project is > >> never published then it will count for zero to your CV and career > >> development. I suggest getting the student to send you a writing > >> sample, or evaluate their writing skills based on the materials they > >> have submitted. > >> Mitch Cruzan > >> > >> > >> On 9/3/2014 6:07 AM, Gary Grossman wrote: > >>> I think that we all look at this issue from a personal perspective, > >>> especially those that did well on standardized tests, and I've had > >>>this > >>> same argument with colleagues for 30 years, including the exact same > >>> situation where the student was up for a competitive assistantship with > >>> a > >>> mediocre GRE score and a senior-authored publication in an > >>>international > >>> journal. You don't tell us how low the score was and I'd be concerned > >>>if > >>> it > >>> was a low quantitative score, because grad students need to have a good > >>> quantitative background. But for researchers, publications are the > >>>sine > >>> quo non and render a low GRE score moot, provided the student actually > >>> earned the senior authorship (we don't have that info either and I view > >>> senior authorship differently than junior authorship, especially if > >>> there > >>> are more than two authors). The one valid argument that the "keepers > >>>of > >>> the gates" regarding the GRE is that it is the one evaluator that is > >>> equivalent across all applications,i.e., as faculty we don't have the > >>> time > >>> to evaluate if an A at Furman University is the equivalent of an A at > >>> Chapel Hill. But in the end I've found that the GRE isn't very > >>> indicative > >>> of performance by a researcher (I mean really, how could it be, it > >>> contains > >>> no information on motivation, persistence, intuition or many other > >>> characteristics that great researchers have). In fact, I've seen some > >>>of > >>> the biggest flops as graduate students come from students with very > >>>high > >>> GRE scores --- they just happen to be good at taking standardized tests > >>> but > >>> not necessarily at research. My own story -- I took the GRE in 1975 > >>>and > >>> earned somewhere between 1150 and 1190 can't remember exactly, but I do > >>> remember it was a mediocre score. I have 110+ journal articles, > >>> including > >>> multiple papers in Am. Nat, Ecology, Ecol. Monogr, Oecologia, > >>>Freshwater > >>> Biol. etc. The math is pretty easy to do <g>. cheers, g2 > >>> > >>> > >>> On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Alex M. L > >>><[email protected]> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Last weekend I got into a long discussion on the value of GRE score in > >>>> a > >>>> PhD > >>>> student. As the 2015 applicants start, I open up the discussion to the > >>>> community: > >>>> > >>>> I have a female student that has both a Masters (thesis) and > >>>> publication > >>>> with > >>>> several years research experience. However, her GRE score are quite > >>>> poor. > >>>> Should I really pass up a seemingly great applicant because of low > >>>> scores? > >>>> > >>>> If a student has a biology Masters or a publication... do GRE scores > >>>> matter? > >>>> Have we not moved past GRE scores when picking the next round of PhD > >>>> researchers for our lab(s)? > >>>> > >>>> If you have a personal story of low scores and still attaining your > >>>>PhD > >>>> or > >>>> accepting a similar student... I would love to hear from you! > >>>> > >>>> Cheers! > >>>> Alex M.L > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> -- > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> Mitch Cruzan > >> Professor of Biology > >> Portland State University > >> Department of Biology, SRTC rm 246, PO Box 751 > >> Portland, OR 97207 USA > >> http://web.pdx.edu/~cruzan/ > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> >
