I agree, Daniel. My colleagues and I offered a scientific writing workshop for graduate students last semester and 75% of attendees were native English speakers. In comments after the workshop, many graduate students said that they hadn't even remembered what a topic sentence was and had re-learned many basics of grammar and sentence structure. English is hard for native speakers but remembering this made these students more compassionate for the challenges their foreign peers face. If native English-speaking scientists had to learn another language, we would appreciate just how hard our international (non-native speakers) colleagues have to work.
Nancy On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 8:05 PM, Daniel Poirot Fernandez < daniel.fernan...@colorado.edu> wrote: > This is all interesting to me. I need to ask which is more beneficial: > taking the time to learn english well or taking the time to learn and add a > skill to your analytical toolbox? Also if is science is to become a > greater part of society shouldn't english speaking scientists take the time > to learn a second language? The majority of humans and don't speak > english. I'm also willing to bet that most scientists don't speak > english. Just some thoughts to stir the pot. > Cheers. > Daniel > ________________________________________ > From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [ > ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of Akwasi Asamoah [ > asamoa...@outlook.com] > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 11:36 AM > To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU > Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] language exam for Ph.D. students? > > Dear Ash, > Yes, math and computer skills are more critical requirements for science > but some reasonable level of basic standard English is also very crucial. > Often poor, inappropriate or complex language hugely drain comprehension > out of our science and engineering. I do believe that though GRE, TOEFL, > IELTS and their like can be an efficient mens of assessing English > Proficiency, they do not in themselves constitute effective means of > testing proficiency in scientific or technical communication. Thus, why > communication requirements like english translation of and/or quizzing on > peer-reviewed publications may come in handy as addition means of further > ascertaining true technical or scientific proficiency. > I mean if we are to be truly honest with ourselves, one does not have to > have such high verbal aptitude to read, critique and communicate scientific > and technical facts. it may be agreed that sometimes high verbal aptitude > breeds costly liberties with the English language (as is often with > inexperienced so-called 'native speakers'). The more they try to prove > their nativeness in language, the more they are likely to be needlessly > verbose to the erosion of understanding. Often, scientific and technical > papers are rejected purely on the basis of strange English language, as > though the the non-native author (s) suddenly invented their own English > language for their paper. > Thus, I think our English proficiency tests should aim to test more of > reliable indicators of adequate knowledge of standard basic English by way > of basic english grammar (concord), lexis and structures, and comprehension > than the testing of high verbal aptitude which often throws science and > engineering in ambiguity and haywire. > Scientific and/or technical communication is not exactly the same as the > English literature as is known or approved by native speakers. Thus, > prospective recruiters would need to find a more effective way of assessing > proficiency in technical and/or scientific communication for successful > completion of early career research work. > Akwasi > > Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2015 16:50:45 +0000 > > From: ashley.ballant...@umontana.edu > > Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] language exam for Ph.D. students? > > To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU > > > > Just to be fair we should implement an exam to ensure that all graduate > students are fluent in at least one computer language- regardless of native > language! I would argue that logical computer syntax is more critical than > illogical English syntax to one's future success in science. > > > > ash > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto: > ECOLOG-L@listserv.umd.edu] On Behalf Of David Inouye > > Sent: Monday, February 02, 2015 4:38 PM > > To: ECOLOG-L@listserv.umd.edu > > Subject: [ECOLOG-L] language exam for Ph.D. students? > > > > I know Univ. of NC still had a requirement in mid-1970s as I had to take > an exam then, and my son had to take one at Duke in the 1990s. > > Are there still any Ph.D. programs that require students take a language > exam? Typically students had to read a paper in the chosen language, and > then answer questions about it posed by a faculty member or committee to > confirm comprehension. So just a reading requirement, not spoken. > > > > David Inouye > -- Nancy E. Karraker, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Wetland Ecology Department of Natural Resources Science University of Rhode Island 105 Coastal Institute at Kingston Kingston, Rhode Island 02881 USA Email: nkarra...@uri.edu Phone: 401-874-2916 <callto:401-874-2916> Webpage: http://karraker.weebly.com
