Thousand times Please forgive me I over look <OFF-TOPIC>. All of you are gr8 peoples I don't mean to insult any one in any shape or form. Belive me I got the message next time i will look for only EDI not <off-topic>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 10:32:26 -0800Subject: RE: [EDI-L] Re: <OFF-TOPIC> Where Executives are put up when they go to Bangalore EDI is very political. The issue of globalization is central. This grouphas frequently dealt with off-topic issues, it is established by and for EDIprofessionals, and has never been moderated or expected to refrain frompolitical commentary. Many technical professionals in the U.S. have been negatively impacted bythe emergence of India as a source of less costly labor. I am one of those.To ignore the impact or to deny the differences between India and westerncountries is to consign oneself to obsolescence. When people arepassionate, they need an outlet. Passions on this subject run high intechnical circles. If you don't feel like participating, please consider clicking the little Xabove any EDI-L post with the <Off-Topic> message identifier, or create arule to move these flagged posts to the deleted folder.All the best,Art DouglasChief ConsultantBlackwater Network877-464-8915-----Original Message-----From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of sampervezSent: Friday, November 30, 2007 9:52 AMTo: Leah Halpin; Craig Dunham; [EMAIL PROTECTED]: RE: [EDI-L] Re: <OFF-TOPIC> Where Executives are put up when theygo to BangaloreI though this is EDI platform. No politics or personal opinion. Can weplease keep it like that? Help each other out with technical stuff.Political and personal opinion is like a wild fire spread so fast sorapidly some time it is very hard to control them. SO I AM REQUESTINGEVERYONE RESPECTFULY PLEASE PUT A STOP TO THIS TYPE OF DISCUSION AND JUST BEPOSITIVE.Please keep it simple stupid (KISS) no INSULT TO ANYONE BUT I ALWAYS BELIVEON THAT.BPTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:24:31 -0800Subject: Re: [EDI-L] Re: <OFF-TOPIC> WhereExecutives are put up when they go to BangaloreCraig,I do not disagree with you. However, my main point is that verydifferent economy and government you talk about. At least from my experiencein working with Indians (I can't speak for Okimba or Maria), their"management" and government take the lions share of the money and live inmansions that yes, cost the equivalent of $35,000US. You and your mother(and myself and probably some others here) have worked long and hard atminimally paid or "demeaning" jobs to get where we are today. These peoplecan't. They get the education (at what sacrifice by their families I can'teven imagine) and then they have to PAY their employer to be ALLOWED to workfor them. Or, they get sent to the US to work at such a low wage (soundedgood before they left home) so that two professional working adults can onlyafford to live in a one bedroom apartment with a card table for furniture(no ipod, no fancy SUV) while all the money stays in the pocket of themanagers inIndia. They're hostages because their company "sponsors" theirvisas and they can't do anything but go back home to worse. They're forcedto pad their resumes and lie in interviews by these same managers. Briberyand corruption are institutionalized in India, this doesn't make for a verylevel playing field for any of us. This is the real problem. Greed, lyingand disregard for what I'd call some pretty basic human ethics. Leah-----Original Message ----From: Craig Dunham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: Friday, November 30, 2007 12:03:59 PMSubject:[EDI-L] Re: <OFF-TOPIC> Where Executives are put up when they go toBangaloreHmmm... where to begin....? where to begin...?!?OK... we'll startwith the original concept - the hotel.... looking at those images, I canassure you that the amenities offered by this LUXURY hotel are not that muchdifferent than you'd find at LUXURY hotels throughout the rest of the world- including right here in the good ol' USA.... Some of those images looklike they could have come off of the website for nearly ANY of theproperties in Las Vegas.... Those Palm Tree lined walks, with water featuresand water falls - very similar to The Tropican, Mandalay Bay, The Mirage andothers.... The pool tables, fully stocked bar and leather conversation pits- well, they abound, as well, in nearly any of the Las Vegas resorts.... Andwhat of the playgrounds of Hawai'i, Jamaica, the Bahamas, Florida...? The"country resorts" in the pastoral areas of the American North East (Maine,New York, New Hampshire) and the rest of the country (such as Arizona,California, Oregon, Washington.. ..)....? Do I really need to cover how manyhotels that we have in this country that can easily rival the offereings ofthis Banaglore hotel property.And I chose to reply to this post from Dylanto Leah's reply - because he mentions a valid point - about how some of thetips and salaries of the new market economy can help to eliminate thoseslums - but he doesn't really go far enough with it....And no, I'm not acold hearted bastard with what I'm about to say....When we look at the merepennies and dollars that some of the workers in other countries make daily -hell, maybe even weekly - we're basing that upon what....? Our own view andour own economy.... We're basing this on the fact that many of us drinkbottled water that costs a dollar..... we drink 4 dollar cups ofStarbucks... .. eat "six dollar burgers".... spend hundreds on a fancy cellphone or MP3 player.... thousands on a TV or a stereo... tens of thousands(and hundreds) on a vechicle.... hundreds and millions on a house...But,see, we're basing the outrage on how we feel for them.... But how do THEYfeel...?!? Do we only need to look a few miles south of our own borders intoMexico (and further south into South American countries) to see how wellpeople can "live" on a few bucks a day...? Can you look at some of those"children fund" commercials to see that for just 40 bucks a month you canhelp little Maria or Sanjeet or Okimba have healthy drinking water andschool books and food to eat...? The point is, is that their economy is VERYdifferent than our own... Their political system is VERY different from ourown.... They don't have 4 buck Starbucks... . and fifty thousand dollar SUVsand pick-up trucks.....Instead, they have a far simpler life than wehave.... They can take that 5 dollars a day that Sanjeet (or whomever!)makes being a hostess or a waitress at that Bangalore hotel and use it tobuy a week of food and shelter for themselves.. .. they don't see theadmittedly over-the-top luxury features of the hotel as a bad thing...Why?Because it takes a place like that (and the places you'll find in otherparts of the world!) to make that 5 bucks a day.... and the tourists andtraveles from the more advanced countries (like the US, the UK, Japan andmany other industrialized nations) who want and, yes, NEED that kind ofplace to stay, that makes it possible for Sanjeet to make her 5 bucks.... orher counterpart, Maria, over in the Phillipines. ... Or the other Maria inBrazil..... or Okimba in Tanzania.... .Yes, it is horrifying the conditionsthat many of these people live in... The level of poverty that they allface.... But look at it through their eyes.... in many cases, it's NOTpoverty.... because they don't squander their money on anything besides thenecessities. ... They don't buy the starbucks and the iPods.... the fancyphones and other techy gadgets.... they're not buying the Estee Lauder andthe Clinique.... Why? because it's not needed....And, BTW, I've lived innear poverty like that - where you don't know where your next meal will comefrom or you have hot dogs on Monday and "frankfurter soup" on Tuesday... Mymom had 5 kids and a fairly worthless husband.... so she struck off on herown and made a future for herself - and her 5 kids - so that they... What'sthe line from "Gone With The Wind"? "As God is My witness, I shall never gohungry again!".....I've worked at some of those hotels and resorts in LasVegas.... and made very little money doing it.... And I lived EVERY SINGLEDAY that I was able to live and work AND better My situation... . I thankedMy mom EVERY SINGLE DAY for the decisions SHE made and the ethics SHE gaveMe so that I would do whatever I could to better Myself and make endsmeet... to get a job here or there and then get a better job.... I livedEVERY SINGLE DAY making the best of whatever situation I was in and lookedat the road ahead to see where I was going....Yes, I know, that in thosedeveloping countries, they don't have those same kinds of opportunities..... but they also have a vastly different style of life over there and youcan't compare our Apples to their Raisins.... And Dylan makes a very validpoint, as well, about how maybe their slums will go away.... and then we canworry about our own slums.... and that's true....In the US - far too manypeople are too ... I can't say PROUD, for pride has NOTHING to do with it...But we have many jobs that are not being done - or they're being done by ourlegal (and not so legal) immigrant workforce - all because some people thinkthat they are too good or too ________ to take that 7 bucks and hour jobmowing lawns or flipping burgers or punching keys at the Target or Wal*Martor ______...... Instead, many of them would rather bitch about how there isno work to be had and go on welfare and live off of OUR backs and the workWE do... They make bad choices and we have to live with those consequences....From India to Mexico to China to Taiwan.... the poeple have a muchdifferent view of it - they look at the fact that there is a job that pays50 cents per hour and they will work, work, WORK, for that job and dowhatever they need to, because it IS a job.... it IS a way to buy food andhousing and the needs of life...Ok... now that you either loathe Me or not -I'll get off the soapbox.... and I am sorry if I offended anybody or.... I'mnot trying to pick on anybody or make any wars or enemies.... I'm justspouting My 2 bits on it..... and what a long 2 bits it was.... so I'll evenapologize for the rant....Craig DunhamEDI Coordinator (amongst otherthings)Big 5 Sporting Goods.PS - the preceeding has been the personal viewsof the poster and do not represent the views of anybody else - not Yahoo,the EDI-L group, members of My family, places I've worked, and so on and soforth.... --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] com, "Dylan Hall" <dylanjhall@ ...>wrote:>> Hi Leah,> > I agree with you that the disparity between theopulence at that 'palace'> and the slums is saddening. But look on thebright side ... maybe some of> those folks who are slaving away in the hotelhave spouses starting a new> career in the IT sector. The generous tips ofIT execs and the amazing> salary their family members will bring in fromtheir new EDI development ...> err I mean IT job will gradually eliminatethose slums. Then we will only> have to worry about our slums!> I know thatis not that funny, but I wanted to break the tension, so 'don't> tase mebros'.> > DH> > On Nov 29, 2007 11:57 AM, Leah Halpin <leahhalpin@ ...>wrote:> > > While ambience is neither in my vocabulary nor my dictionary,ambiance> > is .> >> > Being a mere mile from the airport does not seem veryromantic to me.> > As for ambiance, being waited on hand> > and foot bypeople who are virtual slaves and go home to hovels without> > plumbing orelectricity, makes the ambiance one of sadness, suppression> > anddesperation, again, not very romantic. Guess I'm not just a glossy> >surface kind of gal.> >> > Try the Taj Mahal if you want romantic ambiance,at least the people> > who were forced to build this monument to love are> >dead and gone.> >> > Leah<!--#ygrp-mkp{border:1px solid#d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:14px 0px;padding:0px 14px;}#ygrp-mkphr{border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#ygrp-mkp#hd{color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:bold;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0px;}#ygrp-mkp #ads{margin-bottom:10px;}#ygrp-mkp .ad{padding:00;}#ygrp-mkp .ad a{color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}--><!--#ygrp-sponsor#ygrp-lc{font-family:Arial;}#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{margin:10px0px;font-weight:bold;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc.ad{margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}--><!--#ygrp-mlmsg{font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#ygrp-mlmsgtable {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea{font:99% arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code{font:115% monospace;}#ygrp-mlmsg *{line-height:1.22em;}#ygrp-text{font-family:Georgia;}#ygrp-text p{margin:0 01em0;}#ygrp-tpmsgs{font-family:Arial;clear:both;}#ygrp-vitnav{padding-top:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;}#ygrp-vitnav a{padding:01px;}#ygrp-actbar{clear:both;margin:25px0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text-align:right;}#ygrp-actbar.left{float:left;white-space:nowrap;}.bld{font-weight:bold;}#ygrp-grft{font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px0;}#ygrp-ft{font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid#666;padding:5px 0;}#ygrp-mlmsg#logo{padding-bottom:10px;}#ygrp-vital{background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px 8px;}#ygrp-vital#vithd{font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:bold;color:#333;text-transform:uppercase;}#ygrp-vital ul{padding:0;margin:2px 0;}#ygrp-vital ulli{list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee;}#ygrp-vital ulli.ct{font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text-align:right;padding-right:.5em;}#ygrp-vital ul li .cat{font-weight:bold;}#ygrp-vitala{text-decoration:none;}#ygrp-vitala:hover{text-decoration:underline;}#ygrp-sponsor#hd{color:#999;font-size:77%;}#ygrp-sponsor #ov{padding:6px13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;}#ygrp-sponsor #ovul{padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;}#ygrp-sponsor #ovli{list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;}#ygrp-sponsor #ov lia{text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;}#ygrp-sponsor#nc{background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;}#ygrp-sponsor.ad{padding:8px 0;}#ygrp-sponsor .ad#hd1{font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font-size:100%;line-height:122%;}#ygrp-sponsor .ad a{text-decoration:none;}#ygrp-sponsor .ada:hover{text-decoration:underline;}#ygrp-sponsor .adp{margin:0;}o{font-size:0;}.MsoNormal{margin:0 0 0 0;}#ygrp-texttt{font-size:120%;}blockquote{margin:0 0 04px;}.replbq{margin:4;}-->__________________________________________________________Be a better sports nut! 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