Brandon and the rest,
The tax law changes of 1986 changed our industry in the way you cite. Until then, IT/IS contractors had an exemption from the requirement to qualify as a contractor using the same rules as plumbers and electricians. This tax law spawned the IT staffing agency industry. That's why all the contracts you see available on DICE are working for another company, not the primary client. This protects the primary client from huge fines that can be levied by the IRS if the mistakenly or purposely misclassify an employee as a contractor. So the W2 employee of XYZ IT Pimping, Inc. is not a contractor, and can be told what hours to work. Oh, and about the same time, offshoring IT labor began to hit the big time. If we ever see HR 25, The Fair Tax, come to be law, we can go back to selling our services as before. There won't be any IRS, and nobody will care if you deduct your car expenses - there won't be deductions. You'll pay federal sales tax on the car if you buy it new, and on the gasoline, and keep ALL your paycheck. No FIT, no Medicare, no Social Security. This post is not political, because I haven't let on that I support this law, or not. To find out more about this revolutionary law, mosey on over to fairtax.org. Art Douglas EDI Guy From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brandon Bee Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 4:25 PM To: Craig Dunham; [email protected] Subject: RE: [EDI-L] Re: <JOBS> EDI Specialist - GXS Craig: I'm not disagreeing with you on the common sense point of view. I understand the desire on the part of a company to have its contractors available during working hours. However, from a legal point of view, the line on this one is not blurry at all. Legally, if working hours are specified in the contract, it isn't a legally valid contract relationship. Set working hours is the number one red flag that is looked for if a dispute ever comes up regarding contract vs. employee. It's a huge no-no. Common sense and employment law don't always coexist. In fact, frequently they are mutually exclusive. J This is a case in point. I don't really agree with it. It is just the way it is, at least in U.S. law. There are ways to accommodate the situation and still stay within the law but it takes a little more creativity. You can say something on the order of "contractor is expected to be available to provide support on an as needed basis for our EDI team.", with the "implied" understanding that the EDI team works from 9:00-5:00 M-F. Coming right out and stating working hours on the public offer is just asking for trouble. Also Ken: I wasn't so much replying to you on my original post. I know you didn't post the offer originally. Anyways, it wasn't my intention to take the discussion way off on a tangent (even on a Friday), so I'll let everyone get back to the real business of EDI now J From: [email protected] <mailto:EDI-L%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:[email protected] <mailto:EDI-L%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Craig Dunham Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 1:57 PM To: [email protected] <mailto:EDI-L%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [EDI-L] Re: <JOBS> EDI Specialist - GXS Hmmm.... Not really 100% true... A client may have specific "normal office hours" and, even as an "on-site" contractor, you'd be subject to the hours that the offices are open.... Even if you're an "off-site" contractor, the client may very well expect you to be available during, again, "normal office hours" that they observe. It's not out of the realm of possibility.... At the last place I worked, they had contractors that worked the same basic schedule as everybody else. And being asked/required to be at the office (or available) during normal business hours still does not make you a full time employee of the company. As a full time employee, you then become more expensive, as the client (now employer) will need to put you into their benefits program, on their disability insurance, etc., etc., etc.. Craig --- In [email protected] <mailto:EDI-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:EDI-L%40yahoogroups.com> , "Brandon Bee" <brandon.bee@...> wrote: > > You might also want to be careful about posting working hours on a contract position; unless things have changed legally, that little gem takes you out of the realm of a contract relationship, and into the realm of a de facto full time employment relationship. > > > > Contract positions can't have expected working hours. > > > > From: [email protected] <mailto:EDI-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:EDI-L%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: [email protected] <mailto:EDI-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:EDI-L%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Ken Etter > Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 1:13 PM > To: Vikas Jain (Bitsoft International Inc.); [email protected] <mailto:EDI-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:EDI-L%40yahoogroups.com> > Cc: rohit@... > Subject: Re: [EDI-L] <JOBS> EDI Specialist - GXS > > > > Work Schedule: 8:30 - 5:00 > > Local candidates, must have good communications skills both written and > oral. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ ... 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