i went to some of the sites given in the urls ... and, quite frankly, it is 
kind of difficult to really get a feel for what has transpired ... and how 
targets were set ... and how goals were assessed

regardless of whether we like this kind of an approach for accountability 
... or not ... we all have to admit that there are a host of problems with 
it ... many of these are simply political and policy oriented (in fact, 
these might be the largest of the problems ... when the legislature starts 
enacting regulations without a real good understanding of the 
methodological problems)  ... some are measurement related ... and yes, 
some are statistical in nature

we do have components of this total process

1. there are tests that are developed/used/administered/scored ... in 4th 
and 8th and 10th grades ... these are NOT the same tests of course ... so, 
one is never sure what it means to compare "results" from say the 8th grade 
to the 4th grade ... etc.

2. then we have the problem that one year ... we have the data on the 4th 
graders THAT year ... but, the next year we have data on the 4th graders 
for THAT year ... these are not the same students ... so any direct 
comparison of the scores ... 4th to 4th ... or 8th to 8th or 10th to 10th 
... are not totally comparable ... so, ANY difference in the scores ... up 
or down ... cannot be necessarily attributed to improvement or lack of 
improvement ... the changes could be related and in fact, totally accounted 
for because there are small changes in the abilities of the 4th graders one 
year compared to another year ... (or many other reasons)

3. as i said before, we also have the problem of using aggregated 
performance ... either averages of schools and/or averages for districts 
... when we line them up and then assign these quality names of very high, 
high, etc.
there is a necessary disconnect between the real goals of education ... 
that is, helping individual kids learn .. and the way schools or districts 
are being evaluated ... when averages are being used ...

4. i would like to know how on earth ... these 'standards' for 
"dictated"  improvement targets were derived ... did these have anything to 
do with real data ... or an analysis of data ... or, were just roundtabled 
and agreed to? we have to know this to be able to see if there is any 
connection between policy targets and statistical problems

5. we have to try to separate relative standing data from actual test score 
gain information ... and we don't know how or if the ones setting the 
standards and making decisions ... know anything about this problem

so, to summarize ... there are many many issues and problems with 
implementing any system whereby you are trying to evaluate the performance 
of schools and districts ... and, perhaps the least important of these is a 
statistical one ... set in the context of political policy matters ... that 
a legislature works with ... and "legislates" targets and practices without 
really understanding the full gamut of difficulties when doing so

unfortunately, in approaches like this, one makes an assumption that if a 
school ... or district ... gets better (by whatever measure) ... that this 
means that individual students get better too ... and we all know of course 
that this is NOT NECESSARILY TRUE ... and in fact we know more than that 
... we know that it is NOT true ... in many cases

sure, it is important to make some judgements about how schools and 
districts are doing ... especially if each gets large sums of money from 
taxpayers ... but, the real issue is how we work with students ... and how 
each and every one of them do ... how each kid improves or not ... and, all 
these approaches to evaluating schools and districts ... fail to keep that 
in mind ... thus, in the final analysis, all of these systems are 
fundamentally flawed ... (though they still may be useful)




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