At 04:07 PM 1/13/2003, Rich Ulrich wrote:

Exactly on this topic, I see a serious mis-statment in the document,
under "Planning a study to yield a certain margin of error (M)".

Where it says,
"how large of a SAMPLE  would I need,
with 95% confidence, to produce an interval ...."  - it ought to say,
"... with 50% confidence, ..."

since it is doing only the simplest extrapolation from the
point-estimate of the SD  the pilot study.  That 95%  was
pulled out of thin air, or borrowed by accident (I guess) from
the size of the CI.  It is unaccounted for; it is a mistake.
(But it is not surprising.  This power stuff is tricky, and I think
 that I remember making that same mistake, back when I first
started worrying about these, and before I found that "anchor.")
are you saying that a 95% CI is a 50% CI? if so, explain

the handout was a follow up from a 95% CI example in the book ... it was not pulled out of thin air ... it is fairly standard ... how many books show you the process of building 50% CIs?


Note that  *if*  the original SD  was given as a population's
exact value, then the original  CI  could be in terms of z;
and reducing the size would be an exact formula, where
cutting it in half requires exactly 4 times the relevant degrees
of freedom. That is to say, it would be an EXACT formula,
so the outcome for the CI  would be guaranteed, rather
than being "95%",  or some other quantity.
it was not ... it was given as the estimate of the sd based on sample data ... and that is stated (see reference to "have some approximation to the SD in the population")


At the end of the document, it seems to recognize that,
indeed, you can do something complicated (a power analysis)
to accommodate the observed variability, to get to 95%.

In addition, the document overlooks the tentativeness
of most real power statements; it misses the "iffy-ness."
The statement of outcomes, I think, should be revised with
attention to the difference between *observing*  an
effect-size of 0.1 mpg (What are these terms?),   and
*hypothesizing*  something as being an *underlying*  effect.
That is:  We know that the test with the CI  of +/-   0.05
will REJECT  if the observed effect  is 0.05, not to mention 0.10.
where is power discussed in this handout? now, i am not suggesting that power is an unrelated matter but .... this handout is not about power ...


--
Rich Ulrich, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pitt.edu/~wpilib/index.html
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_________________________________________________________
dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
208 cedar, AC 8148632401, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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