Henry , 

 today I checked the posting, that you mentioned, and I ran some quick
 tests to see, what happens, in answering your posting in a bit more detail:

Gottfried Helms wrote:
> 
> Henry wrote:
> >
> > I don't know which group of the 3 sci.stat.* groups you were talking
> > about,  but I remember looking at double exponential distributions
> > (with positive kurtosis, rather than a uniform distributions negative
> > kurtosis) and getting a reverse CR effect.
> > <http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=391b2a44.679260%40news.btinternet.com>
> 
> This relation may exist, because the uniform-distribution looks somehow like
> a limit for kurtosis. (kurtosis->0) So I guess that in a CR-model
> that variable with a lower kurtosis will be declared to be the "cause".
> (but I didn't check it really)
> 

Just some quick examples to check about kurtosis. 

I draw some randomdata (first example: uniform, second example normal distributed),
and artificially compressed resp. expanded the values by exponentiating, so
that the density changes to different kurtosises.
The different compressions/expansions are documented sideways, the used
exponent heads the resp. columns in the first line. 
For exponent 1 the computed data equal the real data. 

Always the "causes" are uncorrelated.
The cause-indicator x1 is simply computed as x1=cause1.
The "effect" y1 is computed by y1=0.707*(cause1+cause2)
x2 and y2 are computed via regression (although their values are identical with
x2=cause2 and y2 = 0.707*(cause2-cause1) by construction.

Result:
* obviously the CR-effect is strongly dependent on kurtosis of the causes-measures.
  This does not only mean the absolute value of the d-statistic (the direction-
  indicator) but even the direction itself.

(*see table below)

I was talking about refinement of CR in a previer post. For instance you can
observe, that the rde-coefficient for x1/x2 is alway low in absolute value
and the same coefficient for y1/y2 is always high in absolute value. 
This can be easily understood, if you look at the scatterplots. 
The changing of the sign of the d-statistic is then determined by the
change of the rdy-part of the coefficient. May be here is an aspect, how
to improve the method.

In another previous post I also talked about rotation. The Quartimax-rotation 
of the x1',x2',y1'y2'-set localizes the factors always at the x1'/x2'-variables, 
which have the least correlation, and it does not suffer from that problem
which spoils the d-statistic (which is simply a difference of the rde-values).
The non-correlation of the uniformely distributed x1/x2 survives exponentiation
and thus dominates in a subsequent quartimax-orientated factorsystem. 
May be, this is a better path to proceed in enhancing CR - also it seems quite
natural to try and expand it to a more multivariate approach. But that needs 
definitely some more research.



Gottfried Helms

--------


[3] causes = randomu(maxv,n)  // 2x200 uniform-randomdata
(...)
[133]  rde = rde||{{power},schiefe,exzess,rdexy,dstat}


CR-checks (basing on uniform-distributed data)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   where x' means that its values are the signed powers of the absolute values of x
   x'[i] = sign(x[i]) * ( abs(x[i])^exponent ) 


exponent        |           1.00            2.00            3.00            4.00       
     0.50 |
------------    
|---------------|--------------|------------|------------|--------------
skewness
x1              |           0.10            0.15            0.23            0.32       
     0.05 |
x2              |          -0.17           -0.50           -0.93           -1.39       
    -0.07 |
------------    
|---------------|--------------|------------|------------|--------------
kurtosis
x1              |          -1.19           -0.19            0.95            2.17       
    -1.66 |
x2              |          -1.07            0.27            1.69            3.24       
    -1.64 |
------------    
|---------------|--------------|------------|------------|--------------
rde: correlations 
(x1',x2')       |          -0.06           -0.04           -0.03           -0.03       
    -0.06 |
(y1',y2')       |          -0.45            0.21            0.54            0.70       
    -0.84 |
------------    
|---------------|--------------|------------|------------|--------------
CR-D-statistic 
(x,y)           |          -0.39            0.25            0.57            0.73       
    -0.78 |
------------    
|---------------|--------------|------------|------------|--------------
(note: the true "causal" direction is found, when the d-statistics has negative values)
===========================================================================================




[3] causes = randomn(maxv,n)  // 2x200 normal-randomdata
(...)
[133]  rde = rde||{{power},schiefe,exzess,rdexy,dstat}

CR-checks basing on normal-distributed data
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   where x' means that its values are the signed powers of the absolute values of x
   x'[i] = sign(x[i]) * ( abs(x[i])^exponent ) 

 
exponent        |           1.00            2.00            3.00            4.00       
     0.50 |
------------    
|---------------|--------------|------------|------------|--------------
skewness
x1              |           0.17            0.87            2.16            3.62       
     0.07 |
x2              |           0.15            0.61            1.63            3.14       
     0.07 |
------------    
|---------------|--------------|------------|------------|--------------
kurtosis
x1              |           0.14            7.37           19.90           34.11       
    -1.40 |
x2              |          -0.10            6.27           18.85           38.08       
    -1.45 |
------------    
|---------------|--------------|------------|------------|--------------
rde: correlations 
(x1',x2')       |           0.08            0.10            0.12            0.12       
     0.08 |
(y1',y2')       |          -0.05            0.64            0.82            0.88       
    -0.70 |
------------    
|---------------|--------------|------------|------------|--------------
CR-D-statistic 
(x,y)           |          -0.13            0.54            0.70            0.76       
    -0.78 |
------------    
|---------------|--------------|------------|------------|--------------
(note: the true "causal" direction is found, when the d-statistics has negative values)
===========================================================================================



-- 
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Gottfried Helms                                Soz.Paed./Soz.Arb. 
Universitaet Kassel 
FB04 (Sozialwesen)    und        FG Praevention & Rehabilitation  
D-34109 Kassel                              Moenchebergstr. 19 B
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email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www:   http://www.uni-kassel.de/~helms
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