Maybe, the p value talls you the probability of ending where the map says (back
at base), IF the map is correct.  And you read it correctly.....

I like the idea of a map, although it is 2-D and the p value is 1-D.

BTW, what's a chap from Sweden (@sm.luth.se) doing on walkabouts?!  :)

Jay

Robert Lundqvist wrote:

> My approach is often to use very loose terms where I try to make
> connections to other concepts which might be more familiar:
>
> *The null hypothesis could be considered as a map
>
> *You go out on a walkabout with that map in your hand, i e you take a
> sample
>
> *The p-value tells you the probability of ending where you find yourself
> in the end
>
> *If the p-value is low, then it must be reasonable to question the
> relevance of the map/the null hypothesis
>
> This way you can avoid - for some time - to include more tecnical terms.
> Any comments on this approach? Any fundamental gaps?
>
> --robert
> ********************
> Robert Lundqvist
> Dept of mathematics
> Lulea University of Technology
> Sweden
>
> On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, VOLTOLINI wrote:
>
> > Dear friends,
> >
> > The P is the probability of getting a value of a test statistic equal to =
> or
> > greater than the one observed in your data, if it is a random pick from t=
> he
> > distribution of the test statistic that would be created if a specified n=
> ull
> > hypothesis were true.  So, in the situation where the means of two
> > distributions are being compared, a t statistic might be calculated. If t=
> he
> > null hypothesis is that the distributions have an identical mean, the t
> > statistic comes from a distribution of t with mean of zero.  In such a
> > distribution, there is a particular probability (P) that any given value =
> of
> > t will be equaled or exceeded if you pick t values at random. It is not t=
> o
> > be confused with the probability you choose to decide to reject the null
> > hypothesis (i.e. alpha, which is then the probability of rejecting the nu=
> ll
> > hypothesis incorrectly - you think it is wrong when it is true, i.e. the
> > probability of Type I error).
> >
> > But....... I think this is very dificult to teach for young students (usi=
> ng
> > these words!). So, does anyone can send me a suggestion? I would like to =
> use
> > a more simple explanation!
> >
> > For instance, in the book "The truth about Science" (p.101) I read:
> >
> > "A p-value of 0.80 means that
> > there is an 80% chance of finding the data
> > when the population are exactly the same".
> >
> > So, for many students this statement means like "the P value is the
> > probability of Ho is correct" !
> >
> > I would like to avoid a simple explanation to my kidos like "just look if
> > the P value is above or below 0.05 to reject or accept the Ho" :(
> >
> >
> > Thanks for any help !!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >                        Voltolini
> >
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Prof. J. C. VOLTOLINI
> > Grupo de Estudos em Ecologia de Mamiferos (ECOMAM)
> > Universidade de Taubate, Departamento de Biologia
> > Praca Marcelino Monteiro 63, Bom Conselho.
> > Taubate, SP. CEP 12030-010. BRASIL.
> > Tel: 0XX12 - 2254165 (Lab. Zool.) ou 2254277 (Depto. Biol.)
> > E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://jcvoltol.sites.uol.com.br/personalidades/
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> >
> > "Tutto di noi =E8 un angelo con un'ala e
> > possiamo volare soltanto se ci abbracciamo"
> >
> > .
> > .
> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > Instructions for joining and leaving this list, remarks about the
> > problem of INAPPROPRIATE MESSAGES, and archives are available at:
> > .                  http://jse.stat.ncsu.edu/                    .
> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> >
> .
> .
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--
Jay Warner
Principal Scientist
Warner Consulting, Inc.
4444 North Green Bay Road
Racine, WI 53404-1216
USA

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