Am 08.02.2008 um 09:19 schrieb Christian Binder:
> Hi community (don't know if I should use this word any longer),
>
> I know, there have been made rules, agreements, and so on. Some make
> sense, some not I think.
>
It is not a matter of sense its a matter of commitment and trust.
> But why are you all getting so ugly now? Is it really so bad to have
> news about tine on other sites?
No, not if others could think this is the only future of egroupware if
somepart of the community thinks its not and if everyone involved to
it has comitted each user to some rules both parts have accepted!
> I haven't heard much about eGroupware on
> the news the last time, so the articles were really "good news" in
> my ears.
>
If you think tine is the right way - sure. Not if you not convinced in
tine.
> Is your major goal now to get rid of those two "re-inventers" Lars and
> Conny? I hope not.
>
If they were re-inventers, integrating themselves, without fooling
others, holding their own commitments - sure...
But this all they are not. And every week something happens to proove
their illoyability. They are discrediting people, try to keep
different minded people out of their way and using any tricks to
manipulate and disinform the community.
> It's really annoying to see how much hassle comes into the project,
> mostly from posts of our german non-developers which, from my point of
> view, have no right to accuse the two of our 3 most active developers
> (and YES, they ARE active, they do a big part of the innovation at the
> moment, and without innovation the project will not have a real chance
> against its competitors).
>
You stated someting interesting. As you understand the constitution
only a person who writes code is a "developer" - but this is wrong!
Let us take a closer look at it:
Preamble
The Open Source Groupware Suite eGroupWare is a comunity effort,
developed by people for their own enjoyment or to make their living
from it. The ultimate instance in the eGroupWare project are these
developers. Developers are as well people writing code, as people
translating, creating documentation or art-work. We acknowledge a
project can only be successfull if it picks up the wishes and needs of
it's users AND it's developers.
So, I am an developer - AND of course a user as well!
So my wishes and needs have also to be picked up as the wishes and
needs of lars and conny. (Its not my fault that many others not
stating their opinion.) And these are only two - and look at the
discussions - how many people seems to be developers and how less are
really interested in egroupware and tine and discussing about it. Lars
and Conny tried and still are trying to get the control over
egroupware.org - They can do what they want - even their own branch -
thats clear but they were never allowed to tell everybody THEY are THE
ONLY future of egroupware fully legitimated of the admins, the
developers AND the users! There were no excuses from their side. Still
they try to get minds manipulated in may ways. Spreading wrong
informations, breaking rules - is that ok from your point of view?
> Why are you all so afraid about the tine-thingy? Do you fear to loose
> some of your costumers? If that's the point, I'm really sad. I
> think, if
> the tine-project really successes, you all have so many customers that
> you need some more employees.
>
I am not afraid in new technology. I am afraid about the way someone
tried to change it and the picture it gives me how these guys are
minded. Its not a question of technics its a question of character.
Tine looks nice but it seems to be something like an Microsoft Access
Application - some mouseclicks and it looks like revolution. But if
you dig in deeper it is just cosmetics no real thing.... So at the
moment I am not able to say, if tine is really powerful. In the moment
you can not compare them both because tine is "notepad" and egroupware
ist "open office" - so, what would you like to compare?
And Lars and Conny are no constants in egroupware - ralf is trying to
keep on further and further, correcting bugs without loosing the
contact to the past. Lars and Conny get in struggle and from one
moment to the other they throw all away - not only throwing the past
away, telling everybody they are the only ones. But I am getting
redundant - sorry.
> So don't cut off one's nose to spite one's face.
> (For our german friends: schneidet Euch bitte nicht ins eigene
> Fleisch)
>
Nice. But future needs history. And continuity is more than innovation
(innovation is needed - but well calculated and wisely integrated) -
egroupware is no fastfood. People trust in it.
Greeting
Lutz (ubertroll)
> Greetings
> Christian
>
>
>
> Ralf Becker schrieb:
>> Just got an other link about a Tine press release:
>>
>> http://www.pro-linux.de/news/2008/12301.html
>>
>> @Lars+Conny: Do you do that delibrately?
>>
>> Ralf
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> --
>> eGroupWare Training & Support ==> http://www.egroupware-support.de
>> Outdoor Unlimited Training GmbH [http://www.outdoor-training.de]
>> Geschäftsführer: Ralf und Birgit Becker
>> Leibnizstr. 17
>> 67663 Kaiserslautern
>>
>>
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