Hi Lutz, Lutz Falkenburg (irrsinn.de gmbh) schrieb: > Am 08.02.2008 um 09:19 schrieb Christian Binder: > >> Hi community (don't know if I should use this word any longer), >> >> I know, there have been made rules, agreements, and so on. Some make >> sense, some not I think. >> > > It is not a matter of sense its a matter of commitment and trust.
For me, the SENSE, remains the most important part. Sure, they broke rules, but it makes me angry how you deal with really import people for the project: "Hey, look!! They did something wrong...". I would prefer to look at the things they do well, and that's a really big part. > >> But why are you all getting so ugly now? Is it really so bad to have >> news about tine on other sites? > > No, not if others could think this is the only future of egroupware if > somepart of the community thinks its not and if everyone involved to > it has comitted each user to some rules both parts have accepted! > > >> I haven't heard much about eGroupware on >> the news the last time, so the articles were really "good news" in >> my ears. >> > > If you think tine is the right way - sure. Not if you not convinced in > tine. > >> Is your major goal now to get rid of those two "re-inventers" Lars and >> Conny? I hope not. >> > > If they were re-inventers, integrating themselves, without fooling > others, holding their own commitments - sure... > But this all they are not. And every week something happens to proove > their illoyability. They are discrediting people, try to keep > different minded people out of their way and using any tricks to > manipulate and disinform the community. > It's not true that they "manipulate" and "disinform" the community. > >> It's really annoying to see how much hassle comes into the project, >> mostly from posts of our german non-developers which, from my point of >> view, have no right to accuse the two of our 3 most active developers >> (and YES, they ARE active, they do a big part of the innovation at the >> moment, and without innovation the project will not have a real chance >> against its competitors). >> > > You stated someting interesting. As you understand the constitution > only a person who writes code is a "developer" - but this is wrong! > Let us take a closer look at it: > > > Preamble > > The Open Source Groupware Suite eGroupWare is a comunity effort, > developed by people for their own enjoyment or to make their living > from it. The ultimate instance in the eGroupWare project are these > developers. Developers are as well people writing code, as people > translating, creating documentation or art-work. We acknowledge a > project can only be successfull if it picks up the wishes and needs of > it's users AND it's developers. > > So, I am an developer - AND of course a user as well! You're right. Sorry, I apologize for that. > So my wishes and needs have also to be picked up as the wishes and > needs of lars and conny. (Its not my fault that many others not > stating their opinion.) And these are only two - and look at the > discussions - how many people seems to be developers and how less are > really interested in egroupware and tine and discussing about it. Lars > and Conny tried and still are trying to get the control over > egroupware.org - They can do what they want - even their own branch - > thats clear but they were never allowed to tell everybody THEY are THE > ONLY future of egroupware fully legitimated of the admins, the > developers AND the users! There were no excuses from their side. Still > they try to get minds manipulated in may ways. Spreading wrong > informations, breaking rules - is that ok from your point of view? > >> Why are you all so afraid about the tine-thingy? Do you fear to loose >> some of your costumers? If that's the point, I'm really sad. I >> think, if >> the tine-project really successes, you all have so many customers that >> you need some more employees. >> > > I am not afraid in new technology. I am afraid about the way someone > tried to change it and the picture it gives me how these guys are > minded. Its not a question of technics its a question of character. > Tine looks nice but it seems to be something like an Microsoft Access > Application - some mouseclicks and it looks like revolution. But if > you dig in deeper it is just cosmetics no real thing.... So at the > moment I am not able to say, if tine is really powerful. In the moment > you can not compare them both because tine is "notepad" and egroupware > ist "open office" - so, what would you like to compare? You're degrading the importance of an UI too much. For me, the UI is a really important thing, and also for the user. So, a good UI makes an application really powerful. Not only, but it's a big part. > And Lars and Conny are no constants in egroupware - ralf is trying to > keep on further and further, correcting bugs without loosing the > contact to the past. Lars and Conny get in struggle and from one > moment to the other they throw all away - not only throwing the past > away, telling everybody they are the only ones. But I am getting > redundant - sorry. Please consider the work they have done, besides Ralf of course, from 1.2. to 1.4. > >> So don't cut off one's nose to spite one's face. >> (For our german friends: schneidet Euch bitte nicht ins eigene >> Fleisch) >> > > Nice. But future needs history. And continuity is more than innovation > (innovation is needed - but well calculated and wisely integrated) - > egroupware is no fastfood. People trust in it. Yeah, you're right and I don't say that tine is the only way. I just try to make your minds up to not think just bad about tine. It could be a real chance for eGW and my wish is that we support the people behind it a bit and not accuse them every time there is a chance for it. Could we? Then I'll be happy again :-) > > > Greeting > Lutz (ubertroll) > > Also Greetings Christian (hey, what is "ubertroll"? I can't find it in my dictionary, but it sounds funny :-) >> Greetings >> Christian >> >> >> >> Ralf Becker schrieb: >>> Just got an other link about a Tine press release: >>> >>> http://www.pro-linux.de/news/2008/12301.html >>> >>> @Lars+Conny: Do you do that delibrately? >>> >>> Ralf >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> -- >>> eGroupWare Training & Support ==> http://www.egroupware-support.de >>> Outdoor Unlimited Training GmbH [http://www.outdoor-training.de] >>> Geschäftsführer: Ralf und Birgit Becker >>> Leibnizstr. 17 >>> 67663 Kaiserslautern >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft >>> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. >>> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> eGroupWare-core mailing list >>> eGroupWare-core@lists.sourceforge.net >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/egroupware-core >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft >> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. >> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ >> _______________________________________________ >> eGroupWare-core mailing list >> eGroupWare-core@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/egroupware-core > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ eGroupWare-core mailing list eGroupWare-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/egroupware-core
