[floyd wrote] I havn't used the GUI's much, but then no serious developer
should, when you can writ e faster, more efficient shell scripts for
compiling, etc.
This just says it all for the state of this industry. If the GUI tools where
any good you would not have to be a "SERIOUS DEVELOPER" (you remind me of
the tool time add more POWER!!!!) and write those faster, more efficient
shell scripts for compiling. You do know that within the JBuilder
environment you can compile all the source code faster that any other
compiler out there. This can also be invoked by the command line but why do
all that context switching it DEGRADES PERFORMANCE. A few qoutes to awaken
you out of your apparent "engineering" coma:
"Engineers in effect stole the personal computer by building cumbersome,
illogical development environments that no one other than an engineer could
possibly understand...And the more complex and illogical the environment is,
the more likely engineers will flock to it, not because they intend to
exclude anyone, but because they really love the challenge of
complexity.....Engineering schools have been turning out programmers who are
clueless as to the wants, needs, and capabilities of their users for way to
many years. Its time they got their act together......Engineers are not
necessarily content experts in anything but engineering. We have cut off all
the doctors, lawyers, artists, mechanics, architects, teachers,
psychologists, historians, philosophers, salespeople, farmers, film makers,
and journalists who are those most likely to break new ground. (It is ironic
this has occurred just as the engineers are enjoying their own renaissance
in Linux.).....Remember Dan Bricklin, that MBA student back in the early PC
days, who turned the traditional paper-and-pencil spreadsheet he'd been
taught into an electronic version called VisiCalc? It's people like him who
have been responsible for the real revolution, and, until we re-enfranchise
them, this renaissance is officially dead......Because the whole thing is
awash in "macho." Just as with Unix, just as with DOS, the more confounding
everything is, the better it is, because it helps separate the men from the
boys-and the girls, who aren't really invited. "
-Bruce "Tog" Tognazzini
My apologies regarding the "fib" I did not know you were talking about the
command line as "tools" that start a process and compile some code using of
course using the javac. Oh I forget you have to make sure to run all those
other "serious developer" scripts to make sure classpath and environment
variables are setup. We have people in here spending days writing scripts
just to get something to work....great progress. Why did we every build
those graphical components we should just give our users command lines so
that they will feel like SERIOUS USERS - and an engineering discipline has
nothing to do with it. Now I do recognize that sometimes to achieve
something might require combining the outputs and input of many pograms
together to get a desired result (I have read and enjoyed The Pragmatic
Programmer) but this should not be the NORM. I have justed turned around to
one of our SERIOUS DBA's and asked him what he thinks about GUI tools and
scripts. His comments where that he does not like always to use the GUI
because he wants to know what is going on...he wants to learn all the
syntax...."the problem with GUI tools is that they hide this
(complexity?)and allow for the novice users to do damage very quickly
because of the easy access to options...with the command line you need to
know the syntax before things get working....this enforces discipline
(engineering?)..I only use the GUI tools when I have forgoten the synatx and
want to get something done faster" This DBA is a *good* guy who has balance
in the rest of his work, but you cannot change his upbringing.
I retract the sadistic and replace it with MACHO.
kind regards,
William Louth
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Floyd Marinescu [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2000 8:46 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: done whining
>
> >I do not know what version you are talking about but either you are
> telling
> >fibs or you really get a sadistic kick out of "fiddling" with tools.
> Sounds
> >like a qualification for an engineer. The Web Logic tools I have used are
> >terrible (my comments relate to the tools not the implementation of the
> J2EE
>
> Well I asure you that I am neither sadistic nor telling fibs, nor
> am I an
> engineer. Please keep your imature comments to yourself. The truth is
> that when I say tools, I mean their command line utilities, which are rock
> solid. I havn't used the GUI's much, but then no serious developer
> should,
> when you can writ e faster, more efficient shell scripts for compiling,
> etc.
>
> Floyd Marinescu
>
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